Posts by StephaneLaliberte

49

Slightly different approach - JW my tradition

by closed in

hello everybody :) i have been visiting this forum for some time.

i noticed that many can't really free from the past in the org despite many years outside of jw.

i was awaken with a bang.

StephaneLaliberte

Hello Magnum, I read your comments and I can tell you that I was like you for a full decade. I was not in agreement with various teachings and could not get myself to teach or enforce these. Thus, I never became a ministerial servant or elder. Still, I believed that the bulk of the principles were good ones and that the organization helped me lead a clean Christian life.

That is, up until I had kids. It is then that I understood that I could not safely teach my views to my own kids as some of these contradicted the WT theology. Up until then, I didn’t agree with some teachings and while “waiting on Jehovah”, I overlooked these trivial matters. However, when I started studying with my kids, I wanted to pass along the alternative views on some topics and realized that I could not. What if my kids talked about these contradicting views to others? I could end up disfellowshiped! But how could such a situation ever happen with teachings that are trivial? Well, with time, I came to understand that it is the way that the society reacts to question that is not a trivial matter. They call for absolute unity and basically treat disagreements on details as cause for division. And yet, who is making a big deal out of it? The one that voiced an opinion or the one judging, organizing JCs and enforcing absolute unity? Who lacks humility? The one willing to call his brother an anti-christ, an apostate, based on small matters, are the one expressing a simple opinion?

Read the Sermon on the Mount and tell me what is more important: To show love to your brothers or to know biblical history? Read the story about the Samaritan and tell me what is more important: Helping his fellow human being or having a clear understanding of the Abrahamic dependence? The JWs have fallen into the same trap: They believe that knowledge while save them, all the while forgetting about love which is more important. And yet, most will priorities their meetings and field service over giving love to those around them. Most JW know a close friend or family member that they are now shunning while Jesus, on the other hand, helped the sinners. He didn’t come for those who were well, he came for the sick. Their view is: We’ll help the sick get better. But don’t get sick again, you’ll be shunned. How is this love? Knowing the names of the various Israelite kings will not save you. It is how you treat your neighbor that will.

I left because I wanted to spare my kids from this distorted view of love and Christianism.

152

If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?

by nicolaou in

a few years after i quit the meetings my mum needed her medical directive signed and witnessed and she asked if i'd do it.

i was surprised to say the least!.

i think she was just angling to include me and maybe find some lever to get me involved again.

StephaneLaliberte

I need to have a serious talk with my father about this topic and do it while he is healthy. Doing so now would be better than at the last minute, at the hospital.

I will ask him this very simple question: Please explain why the following passage does not apply to the blood ban. If not, than, what can we apply this to?

(Matthew 12:1-8) 12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples got hungry and started to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 At seeing this, the Pharisees said to him: “Look! Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them: “Have you not read what David did when he and the men with him were hungry? 4 How he entered into the house of God and they ate the loaves of presentation, something that it was not lawful for him or those with him to eat, but for the priests only? [..] 7 However, if you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless ones.”

On thing for sure, what ever his decision, however stupid I find it to be, I will respect it. We all die one day or another... at least, he will go on his terms. Just like people wearing "Do not resuscitate" cards/cloths. Its their call.

On the other hand, if that was my wife, I don't know if I would actually respect her wishes... she has kids depending on her. Thankfully, my wife is out with me and has nothing against blood transfusions.

14

Do you believe in a personal God?

by StephaneLaliberte in

there may be a god, but i doubt he has anything to do with us now.

i cannot reconcile concentration camps such as auschwitz, which i have visited, and people praying before their meal, thanking him, who did nothing.

here is an example: frank has a kid named johnny.

StephaneLaliberte

There may be a God, but I doubt he has anything to do with us now. I cannot reconcile concentration camps such as Auschwitz, which I have visited, and people praying before their meal, thanking him, who did nothing.

Here is an example: Frank has a kid named Johnny. Frank has always been a very good dad for his 8 years old son and has provided him with everything he needs. However, Frank see's that his neighbor often lets his big bad dog move around without a leach. He’s concerned for the safety of his kid as the dog barks, grunts and even jumps over the fence from time to time! Then, one day, while Frank drinks his beer, he sees that dog jump over the fence and finally attack his son.

Frank keeps drinking his beer, takes a pause and says: “I have seen your distress and I have heard your lamentations my son. And as sure as I am standing here today, there will be retribution for what this dog is doing to you. For I am Frank, your father, who will protect you, and this dog will feel my wrath and he will surely die … when I come.” And then, Frank keeps drinking his beer.

The kid dies. The dog, after being satisfied of a hasty meal, goes home, to the horror of the mother who comes home and sees what has happened. Frank still stands around, doing nothing, vowing that he will bring about vengeance to the dog.

What do you think everyone around will do? Thank Frank for the 8 years of being a good father?

Sure, life is full of beauty and I feel the love. But there is no excuse for the holocaust.

God saw the Nazis gather, talk, and plan out how they would kill his children by the millions. They used professionals that made engineering plans, passed laws, re-organized the government’s internal processes, drew new legal documents and procedures, not only to kill, but to steel everything that their victims. They designed and built the camps, the gas chambers, the stairs, the doors, the gas traps. Re purposed and redesigned railways. Dispatched armies to gather the Jews and other victims, etc. There are many things I am skipping here, but the point is that this was planned over, many years. Many years during which God saw exactly what was going to happen, then, saw it happen, and did nothing, absolutely nothing.

And you’re going to tell me that God provides food on my table or gives a fridge to a pioneer in need?

56

OK friends lets be honest, if a Nuclear Holocaust took place today how many of you would return to the KH?

by James Mixon in

speaking for my self, no way in hell.. this question to see if you really have been deprogramed,.

do you 100% believe it is not the truth.. a fourth of the world hit by a nuclear attack..

StephaneLaliberte

The concept that I would go back under imminent threat would demonstrate that I am not convinced that I am living a life in accord to what I sincerely believe about being good. The idea that God may pass over you based on your membership to a cult and not based on the actions you do every day is beyond logic. I believe that in the end, people should be able to say "He was a good guy who did good around him." Achieving this goal does not require attendance to a religion where people are told to send letters to their disfellowshipped mother instead of simply talking heart to heart with her. Just writing that last sentence makes me feel sick about them.

63

"And Your Little Dog Too...." WTS not content with taking kids' ice cream money, now they want them to give up their puppy dogs too.

by sir82 in

don't know if anyone else caught this subtle but malicious photo from the 12/13/15 wt study article.. not sure how to post pictures here, but the photo is on the website's copy of the article, just below paragraph 12:.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20151015/give-us-more-faith/.

note the 3 pictures in sequence tell a "story":.

StephaneLaliberte

You know, though one could say that they still brought the dog with them and he is in the house in picture three, your interpretation of that image sounds also very likely.

88

Legalized marijuana. It's coming to canada and I want to try it.

by hoser in

jw
friends

as a good jw i never smoked a joint or nibbled on some brownies.

StephaneLaliberte

To me, pot is like alcohol. You can take too much, too often, and become addicted. I have known people who, I am convinced, smoked away the better half of their brain cells and messed up their lives for it.

Does that mean you shouldn't do any? I don't think so. I tried marijuana after leaving the witnesses, twice. On a casual basis, I don't see the harm. I have kids, and honestly, I don't think that this is something that should be done when they are around or even sleeping at night. What if anything goes wrong... one of them gets sick and I'm high?

However, if I'm on vacation with my wife without the kids? Oh yeah!! I AM CANADIAN! And yet, as you can tell, I am rarely on vacation without the kids!

20

I couldn't take it anymore, although still in because of my wife, I did this...

by LevelThePlayingField in

i dressed up in a hoodie, double layer so that the cameras at the kingdom hall couldn't recognize me.

i looked in the mirror up and down so i knew that the cameras, at least at the angle that i knew couldn't see my face.

i took this disassociation letter, stuck it in the envelope, labeled it, "(congregation's name...boe" by hand and sealed it.

StephaneLaliberte

Saintbertholdt,

he used a random congregation. Its not real info. So, these elders will search a little while before giving up. I find this awesome as they will likely read this letter entirely seeking for details that could give up the anonymous prankster.

35

2015 November 19, BOE! Circuit Account Balances!

by Atlantis in

delete if already posted.. .

2015-november 19, boe.

.. re: review of circuit account balances.

StephaneLaliberte

Not sure why, but for me in Canada, that doesn't sound like a new thing at all. It even bothered me a little as early as the 90s when I was still in. There was always just ONE contribution box at the assemblies and on Saturdays, they made announcements that sounded like this:

"From the previous assembly, we had an excess of 2,000$, from this money, we donated 1,200$ to the world wide work. We now have a balance 800$."

Back then, I was thinking: Why not just keep it until you reach a decent amount like 8,000 dollars (the average cost of one assembly).

So, if I get this right, now, they are making it a rule that is even more greedy and needs to be enforced by all the Circuits. Will they now make such announcements at the conventions?

"From the previous assembly, we had an excess of 2,000$. So, we donated it all to the Watchtower. We now have a balance of 0$"

I think all this will backfire on them as people giving too much will start giving less trying to hit the expense amount right on the nail.

72

CEDARS (Again) Is it really about religious beliefs?

by Listener in

jw
friends

john cedars has posted his latest blog "the trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn't put you off becoming one)".

i acknowledge that he is entitled to his opionin just as we are ours but i am disappointed in some of his comments.. at this stage i'll try to be objective about it.

he is defending his own position after all.. what bothers me most is his comments about athiests and christians which he seems to identify as being in conflict with each other.

StephaneLaliberte

I like John, and I’m always eagerly waiting for his next videos and articles; but frankly, I think he is completely off base with his last article. He basically presents a spectrum of X-JWs based on their activism level and their belief or non-belief in God. Then, he links this to the hatred he has felt over the years and especially more recently.

Well, I believe that the heat he receives lately has nothing to do with his belief and everything to do with his personality. Simply put, he projects the image of a condescending know-it-all whose judgement and understanding of life is not clouded by his emotions.

For people like Mike and Kim, who are the exact opposite, this is unbearable, especially when this young little nerd start telling everyone that they are conspiracy driven nuts who are damaging the very cause that they are dedicating their lives to.

This is what they have, this is what they want to leave behind, doing their best to awake people, support the awakened, and expose Watchtower.

Yet, to John, they are not only meaningless, they are damaging to the cause. He did not shy from expressing this when he basically called out everyone involved in aggressive activism.

When I saw this, I personally wrote to John. I related the fact that the first time I looked for Apostate stuff on the web was after I heard “a nut case” shouting outside and Assembly hall: “The WT was part of the UN for ten years! Check it out!” – Then, I went home and checked it out! You may not agree with it, but it can actually work. John’s response? You’re an exception. Most people are driven further into the cult. Well, how do you know? How can you claim to know how people feel? What they think, their fear, their pain, their concerns? None of that can be measured.

The world is not just about facts. A large portion of it is based on emotions, feelings, sensations, things that cannot be defined or measured. And it is not because we cannot easily define it, explain it, measure it, that it is any less important than the rest.

When people are on their death beds, they talk about love, their family, friends, the smell of grass, the taste of ice cream, etc. They are rarely debating upon the intellectual understanding of X cause in the world.

Mike & Kim are all about emotions. They get mad, they laugh hysterically at the absurdities of the Watchtower… and they threaten to kick John’s ass when he calls one of their friends the “C” word.

John’s response? He writes a five page essay in which it sounds like legal jargons to express the fact that Mike threatened him. That’s how far his personality is from that couple.

I am not taking side with either ones to be honest. Mike and Kim do sound like nut case from time to time and John sounds like an ass full of himself from time to time. All this to say that the spectrum is not about religion, it is about personalities. He and the “Mike & Kim” team are at opposite ends of that spectrum, and I am very much enjoying the show watching every videos that both of them produce!

26

Does this sound like a man who is inspired by God?

by Coded Logic in

absolutely disgusting!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqzc2m8_mba.

StephaneLaliberte

Ahhh dam, you can't use it. He said that crap back in 1971! This means that this declaration is protected by the "Old light" teaching and thus, do not apply. From the feel of it, anything prior to the year 2000 is considered old light and can simply be ignored.