Posts by StephaneLaliberte

17

What JWs don't know they believe

by StephaneLaliberte in

in a post this morning, i suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the jws don't really know too well.

the idea is that you can say these things, other jws will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

the key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy.

StephaneLaliberte

Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant between Jehovah God and the anointed Christians numbering 144,000. No argument there. The rest are not part of that covenant but we benefit from it. I don't see the problem with that.

What is an alliance if it is not a promise between two parties? The answer you provided is the official teaching and you will note that they don't say it often cause if you stop and think about it, its bunkers.

You are not part of the alliance, but you are expected to devote yourself to Jehovah at least 20 hours a week (personal study, family study, meetings, field service). That's a lot of time to not be part of any official alliance.

Of course, this will not trouble everyone, but if you incorporate it often enough in your talks, prayers, comments, discussions, some will start to stumble on it. I'll admit that this is a challenge as repeating it too often could even sound apostate, but there must be a way to bring it forth every now and then.

One approach that easily works are biblical quizzes in the field ministry, between calls and doors. You know... how old was methuselah? What were the names of the three Hebrews who didn't bow down to the idole? What are the alliances mention in the bible and between who? Trick question: Are we part of any alliance? What are the two pivotal dates on which our chronology relies?

17

What JWs don't know they believe

by StephaneLaliberte in

in a post this morning, i suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the jws don't really know too well.

the idea is that you can say these things, other jws will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

the key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy.

StephaneLaliberte

In a post this morning, I suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the JWs don't really know too well. The idea is that you can say these things, other JWs will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

The key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy. Since we are urged to make comments using our own words, we can re-word these in a way that really expose their true nature; stripping them from the manipulative talk-track.

So, here is a thread to start getting some examples.

Most none JWs will be killed at Armageddon. That means, 99% of the planet. It will be a blood bath.
Parents have the right not to report sexual abuse to the police and Elders may be instructed to respect that decision.
The new testament was written for the Anointed.
When new teachings come in, explain the impact this has. For instance, when blood fractions came in, mention a few life saving treatment that are now acceptable for Christians.

Remember, the key here is delivery... You must say shocking things and sound like you're totally oblivious to the issue. And when teachings/rules change, say you're really excited about a change and happy about the direction Jehovah's chariot is going as we are fixing previous issues.

51

PIMO elder

by Reservations in

jw
friends

i’m reservations, pimo elder.

i’m in no position to leave the organisation, maybe some people will see that as weak or whatever, but we have to all go down our own path in life.. i would like to be able to wake people up in my congregation, how do you think best to do this?

any ideas?.

StephaneLaliberte

Well, here is an evil approach and it really depends on your conscience, but I found that a lot of Elders don't really teach everything the watchtower says (they simply avoid some topics) or don't fully commit to enforcing the WT rules. These elders are generally highly valued by their congregations as most JWs don't really believe everything. You could put off a lot of people by really doing that.

I had some fun with this before I left the "truth" by making comments; some caused the elders to approach me after the meeting and ask me questions about what I said and I would show them the articles where this or that was actually thought and still valid.

For instance, if there is a watchtower talk about pedophiles, you can say something like: "You don't have to go to the police if you don't want to. That's your right. But it is also your right to report it to the police. It is for the parents to choose to make that decision."

Saying something like that will surely shock people in the congregation, but is not debatable once you read the watchtower articles.

Its hard to do this as we've been raised/thought to protect the society, but after you do it once, you'll find strange satisfaction in doing it.

17

How would you respond?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

if you tell a jw that he or she is in a cult and they asked you why do you say that?

how would you respond?.

StephaneLaliberte

For every argument you have to show JWs that they are a cult, they will have a prepared answer to deny it.

Perhaps the best way to go would be to ask if there is anything that they don't agree about their religion and if they feel free to express those disagreements with their leaders, friends, family. I'm not talking about going on a campaign here; just to have a free open conversation about their disagreement with their fellow believers. If not, they are not freely exercising their faith.

Funny thing is that some might tell you that they are free to hold such conversations. In which case, ask them if they did and how did it go? Were there follow ups? Did other people unexpectedly got involved? How did it feel? If they haven't had such conversation, ask them to actually do it. After all, if they are free as they believe they are, what could be the harm?

Its that simple.

46

The unfolding crisis in Afghanistan is completely Joe Biden's fault, nobody else's

by LoveUniHateExams in

so, there's been a lot of talk on social media, blaming trump for the current crisis that began at the weekend.. it's a load of bullsh!t from deluded people who are desperate to blame anyone but joe biden, the idiot they voted for or at least wanted to win last november.. there is only one person, just one person, to blame: joe biden.. he has the heavy burden of making tough presidential decisions.. and after this debacle, it's reasonable to ask if he's up to making such decisions..

StephaneLaliberte

I guess it’s part of the JW mindset that if you can come up with an ‘illustration’ for something,

I deliberately did that as we are on an ex-JW forum. I thought it was funny :)

46

The unfolding crisis in Afghanistan is completely Joe Biden's fault, nobody else's

by LoveUniHateExams in

so, there's been a lot of talk on social media, blaming trump for the current crisis that began at the weekend.. it's a load of bullsh!t from deluded people who are desperate to blame anyone but joe biden, the idiot they voted for or at least wanted to win last november.. there is only one person, just one person, to blame: joe biden.. he has the heavy burden of making tough presidential decisions.. and after this debacle, it's reasonable to ask if he's up to making such decisions..

StephaneLaliberte

Not the Taliban’s fault. Not the Afghan government/military. Not previous US administrations going back decades. No, all Joe Biden.

Perhaps you'll understand with an illustration: You bought an old car that needs much repairs. You are aware of it but take it out on the highway anyways and have a major accident. Who's to blame? The previous owners? The Car itself? No! It will be you! You took an action that, given the circumstances, didn't make any sense.

Same goes with the situation in Afghanistan, the US did a poor job at handing over power to that countries government/military. And than, even worst, they didn't even prepare for proper evacuation. But who was it that actually took the decision to leave like this? It was Bidden. Trump made a lot of promisses that he didn't follow and leaving the Afghanistan was just another one. When faced with the facts, what was more important? Uphold his word? Or was it to ensure that he wasn't serving up on a plate thousands of people to radicals? I never liked Trump, but he never messed up as bad as this.

18

If all GB members died at once?

by Jofi_Wofo in

i don't suppose anyone knows for sure, but do we have any kind of hint of what would happen if all of the governing body members died at the same time- such that nobody was left to appoint successors?

in lieu of any solid evidence, i'd also be interested in hearing some speculation based on what we already know about the organizational structure.. it would certainly throw a wrench in either the teaching that the faithful and discreet slave will survive into the great tribulation and/or the implied doctrine that the the gb succession arrangement is justifiable biblically.

let me firmly disclaim any implication that i am encouraging violence or wishing death on the governing body.

StephaneLaliberte

Nothing would change. In fact, the cult would be even more cultish as their teaching is that the GB members would go to heaven during the great tribulation before Armageddon. They would see this as an accomplissement of prophecies.

And as much as I don't like these guys, I prefer for them to face humiliation and jail rather than death. It also reassures me that I am not morally bankrupt as they are considering that they'd like me to die as the evil apostate that I am.

10

Question for parents with a believing co-parent

by Anony Mous in

my daughter is being raised in a pimi household and spends a significant time with me in a pomo household.

i don’t pressure her to believe, so she is thinking/pressured about becoming a jw from the other end, so she is reluctant about celebrating holidays and birthdays, but as any kid, she loves the gifts and attention, so she will “not celebrate but still do things”.. she is becoming a teenager however, and showing interest in not-so-jw-things.

her mother forbids star wars for violence and magic, but she wants to watch it, she wants a few horror video games, she wants to shoot things and go hunting but guns aren’t allowed, so i’ve compromised for archery.. what do parents of teenagers do?

StephaneLaliberte

Is your daughter baptized? Is she a publisher? Or does she believe in JWs? I would be very careful about doing things that are judged "bad" by the JWs if your daughter isn't a PIMO. The only thing that could counter the excessive brain washing JWs do is by doing a bible study of your own, even if you are an atheist! For instance, read a book that offers a quick cover to the bible, or you could even review JWs content with her and ask questions. If you try to do things while she believes these things to be wrong, she will act against he conscience and will ultimately blame you as a bad influence.

16

your last big assembly

by stan livedeath in

can you remember the last big assembly you went to ?

by big--i mean bigger than a circuit job--so--district ?

whole country at a stadium thing.. my last one was old wembley stadium uk..about 1969 ?

StephaneLaliberte

2002 in Montreal at the Olympic Stadium, 36,000 in attendance. Audio was horrible, no A/C. At some point, it rained and I had no ambarella. I felt uncomfortable and was asking my self: What's the purpose of this? There were so many people you could barely find your friends, at an era where a lot of people still didn't have phones. Also, my mom got really sick, so I had to bring her back to the hotel. Missed a big portion of the Saturday, but I remember i was sorta glad to have an excuse to leave. I wouldn't say this particular assembly was part of my fund memories.

1988 in Montreal at the Olympic Stadium, 50,000 in attendance. That was the big one that is in my good JW memories. It was at that assembly that they introduced the Young People Ask book. I was a 9 year old kid and they placed all the kids in one special section for that talk. It was pretty cool at the time. My dad had bought a brand new suit. Considering our financial situation, it was a really really big deal. I tripped on a wire on the floor and dropped coffee all over him. At one point, I also got lost and ended up in different sections where people were speaking different languages, like Spanish and German, etc. I remember, at the end, people from different countries were walking in big groups in the middle of the stadium as we sang a kingdom song. People were crying, including my parents. All convinced that Armageddon was just around the corner. That was 33 years ago!

22

Don’t Trust the Courts! Splane’s Latest Anti-Apostate Talk

by StephaneLaliberte in

david splane’s talk “put up a hard fight for the faith” was that last talk presented on the saturday of the annual convention.

this talk was to largely address apostates and restated ideas and arguments often presented before.

however, this year, watchtower is spending more time in disqualifying negative findings originating from secular courts and here is the segment of interest here: .

StephaneLaliberte

Rattigan350: So Splane is right. We can't trust juries.

I agree that no one should put their full trust in juries, especially when we consider all the innocent people that have been thrown in jail by a jury of their peers. The system isn't perfect and injustice happen. Still, these injustices are not the majority of the rulings. In most cases, the judgement is sound and righteous. Yet, listening to Splane, seems like every ruling against WT has Satan whispering in the judge's and jury's ears, which is plain wrong and a very dangerous way of manipulating their members.

Court rulings are recorded, documented and follow a process where they can be reviewed and contested. The WT way is to basically bully their members not to discuss these things at all, preventing them from forming their own opinion.