I still hear my mom and my mother in law criticize the catholic church as if they're full of demons. I usually don't interject until they personally attack a specific priest. Then the conversation often becomes: Well, even if he is a good person, he's victim of his religion.
StephaneLaliberte
JoinedPosts by StephaneLaliberte
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Watchtower talking bad about other religions
by asp59 indo you remember the time when every watchtower article seemed like a boasting session?
how great watchtower was.
they we're the only one with holy spirit.
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Well what do you know gb finally understanding social isolation or shunning.
by Yomama inupdate some upstanding jw are experiencing social isolation isnt that what df and da people feel?reap sow karma..
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StephaneLaliberte
Proverbs 18:1 "Whoever isolates himself pursues his own selfish desires, he rejects all practical wisdom"
I found this quote interesting as it can be both a good and a bad thing. Under the influence of a group, individuals will forfeit personal beliefs, logics and desires to please those of the group they belongs to. In some cases, this is a good thing. For instance, some people would live in filth if they were alone; however, due to their friends who visit from time to time, they'll clean up. And then, there's the JWs where under pressure from their group, parents will shun their children for the rest of their lives if they dare to smoke a cigarette, express disbelief in the GB, play the lottery or put up Christmas lights.
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Why do Anti-Jws refuse to answer questions- and ignore our answers?
by DoubtingThomas indenial..
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StephaneLaliberte
Doubting Thomas:
1) What are the things that you do not believe from the Governing Body and how does this impact that group's ability to please God?
I answered you! Their opinion about some of God's prophecies, and some of their policies.Which prophecies? Which policies? how does this impact their ability to please God?
2) Please provide examples of when they have admitted their mistakes/sins.
I answered you! Only in the 'Revelation" book.Where in the revelation book? Did they express regret? remorse? acknowledgement that their actions/miss-understandings were short-comings and not simply: We didn't know until God gave us further light? (essentially blaming God)
3) If they are simply your fellow brothers, they should be judged as such. Is it Christian for someone to outcast people and have their friends and family shun them for disagreement on even small things?
I answered you! I agree.I understand you have a great deal in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses. However, if the leaders of the group do not behave like christians, your very presence is a support to their action. Don't you believe this could have an impact on your own personal worship with god?
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Why do Anti-Jws refuse to answer questions- and ignore our answers?
by DoubtingThomas indenial..
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StephaneLaliberte
Well, I did ask you three questions and didn't get any answers from you. Here they are again:
1) What are the things that you do not believe from the Governing Body and how does this impact that group's ability to please God?2) Please provide examples of when they have admitted their mistakes/sins.
3) If they are simply your fellow brothers, they should be judged as such. Is it Christian for someone to outcast people and have their friends and family shun them for disagreement on even small things?
these questions are in this thread: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6228807374602240/can-you-jw-who-does-have-gb-their-leader
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Can you be a JW who does not have the GB as their leader?
by DoubtingThomas ini am.. they are just fellow brothers, old and getting senile.... but enlightened, despite all the whining.....
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StephaneLaliberte
Doubting Thomas: If you want to have a decent exchange, I'm willing to give it a try.
Since you don't believe everything originating from the Governing Body (GB), than you might be in the same boat as my dad: He believes the "truth", however, he believes that the GB is like a bad king ruling over Israel. While Israel had its share of bad kings, they were still God's people. So, good king or bad king, they had to remain in God's people. According to this logic, same would go with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Good or bad, they are Jehovah's People.
However, this falls apart considering that Christ changed the selection criteria for God's people. With Isreal, this was by birth. However, starting with Christ's death, this changed to "by deeds". This is the very logic used by Jehovah's Witnesses for telling people to move out of "Christianity". According to JWs, the first century Christians were organized (had an organization) and were selected by Jesus himself. Yet, they lost their way and now, people are urged to join another organization that was "chosen" invisibly in the 20th century. This logical pattern exposes the JWs to the possibility that they could also lose God's favor by their wrongful actions.
So the question is: What are the things that you do not believe from the Governing Body and how does this impact that group's ability to please God?
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Can you be a JW who does not have the GB as their leader?
by DoubtingThomas ini am.. they are just fellow brothers, old and getting senile.... but enlightened, despite all the whining.....
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StephaneLaliberte
DoubtingThomas: People here provide reasoning behind their comments and have no problem in considering other's opinions, changing their own in the process. From your comments history, you obviously do not want to discuss ideas and grow from such exchanges. You're simply here to throw statements and to ridicule others. This type of behavior doesn't produce anything at all and is only a waist of time for all involved, including you. This thread feels like playing chess with a pigeon: No matter how good you are, the bird is going to throw the game pieces, shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway!
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Can you be a JW who does not have the GB as their leader?
by DoubtingThomas ini am.. they are just fellow brothers, old and getting senile.... but enlightened, despite all the whining.....
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StephaneLaliberte
but I'm to busy doing biblical research to read their endless publications...
Catholics have much more "publications" than the JWs. The number of publication is not equal to truth.
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Can you be a JW who does not have the GB as their leader?
by DoubtingThomas ini am.. they are just fellow brothers, old and getting senile.... but enlightened, despite all the whining.....
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StephaneLaliberte
DoubtingThomas: Considering that they have been around for 50 years, examples of them admitting they are wrong on a specific instance should be easy to find. Please provide such examples to be taken seriously on this board.
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Can you be a JW who does not have the GB as their leader?
by DoubtingThomas ini am.. they are just fellow brothers, old and getting senile.... but enlightened, despite all the whining.....
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StephaneLaliberte
DoubtingThomas: If you see the governing body as your fellow brothers, then you should also expect them to behave as any other brother in your congregation.
They don’t admit their sins/mistakes
Now, the governing body has admitted that it is not perfect as any other brothers. Would you accept a brother in your congregation that commits mistakes, says he’s imperfect, and never admits to any in particular? Since the Governing Body has been around for the last 50 years, plenty of mistakes must have been made, I mean, we’re all human right? So, there must also be plenty of examples where your fellow brothers admitted their mistakes, right? Afterall, isn’t confessing the first step to forgiveness?
They don’t tolerate anyone who disagrees with them
Imagine you are in a meeting where a brother gives a talk. He then says something you don’t agree with. You don’t recognize this teaching from either the bible or the governing body. So, after the meeting, you send an email to that brother asking him for clarifications. Rather than discussing the matter with you, he sends the draft of his talk back to you and says that you should find what you are looking for in there. If you don’t, then you must be too proudful to see it. You are shocked by the answer and try to pursue the conversation with him by sending another polite email. Turns out that this brother is the owner of a company that employs some of the local elders. Following Monday, the brother exerts his authority as a boss to get them to remove your privileges. The elders then contact you and tell you that as you’ve been causing division in the congregation, you can no longer be a pioneer, ministerial, etc.
How would you view that brother? Throughout the process, there has never been any candid and sincere conversation on the disagreement you had with the brother, even if it was small, perhaps even insignificant. Would that brother be good? Meek? Spiritual? Now, why should you treat the governing body (individually or collectively) any different? If they are your fellow brothers, they should also be subject to the same Christian values as everyone else in the congregation. Yet, you know full well that expressing doubts in there teaching results in similar treatment. Sometimes, even worse! They go tell your family and friends that they should cut all ties with you as you are an apostate!! And if they don't, THEY will be disfellowshipped! Again, throughout this entire process, it doesn’t matter what you disagreed on, the point is that you disagreed with them. Period. If you would not accept it from a brother, why accept it from them?
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More cracks in the dam - WTS pleading for elders "in their early 20s"
by FFGhost ini have another post here about how the wts is reeling from covid, as reflected in their abysmally catastrophic service report:.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6315842470936576/annual-service-report-yet-another-analysis-big-trouble-wts.
here's another rupture showing.. in the latest "announcements and reminders" to elders, there is a paragraph with these sentences:.
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StephaneLaliberte
By the way, this isn't a new thing. I know of two brothers that were named elders at 25. This was 30 and 20 years ago in Canada (Quebec and Ontario). One of them had attended Ministry School while the other was just a very nice young man.