Posts by writetoknow

  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    Science and Supernature

    By Timothy O’Fallon





    What interests me about his conclusion is that he does not draw it by following an empirical methodology. The lack of scientific evidence may be the premise from which he forms his argument, but it is not the argument itself. Rather, he draws his conclusion by using logic. Science and logic, while certainly linked, are not synonyms. Apparently, while science is my friend's measuring rod for truth, it cannot be applied without the rules of logic. Think of his argument, then, in the following form:

    A. If God exists, then it must be possible to prove His existence by means of the scientific method.
    B. No scientific proof has ever been offered confirming the existence of God.
    C. Therefore, God does not exist.

    I could adjust the above argument to suit the agnostic position by concluding that without scientific evidence there is no way to know for certain that God exists, but the reasoning is essentially the same. In order for my friend's argument to be sound, certain presuppositions must be true and one implication must follow. The first presupposition is that anything that exists must be empirically measurable. The second is that the scientific test trumps all other methods to prove or disprove God’s existence (legal proofs, logical proofs, etc). The third presupposition is that empirical proofs can be true. The implication that follows from the presumption that empirical proofs can be true is that human reason can produce genuine insights into the way things really are, and not only absurd guesses at existence from a purely subjective standpoint.

    Must everything that exists be scientifically measurable? Yes, if by ‘all that exists’ you mean ‘what is scientifically measurable’. To say so would be a mere redundancy. This is essentially the position of the Naturalist, who cleanly puts every possible existence within the realm of Nature. Since Nature is governed by certain rules which themselves are governed by the underlying principle of ‘cause and effect’, we observe her behaving in an orderly fashion.* This is because all the universe is related in one giant interlocking matrix of ‘cause and effect’, beginning from the Big Bang and continuing indefinitely. Nothing escapes or is outside the interlocking whole. I am composing this because the precise chain of events which began at the first hint of an explosion at the Big Bang led to more chains of events which necessarily and unalterably produced this solar system, this planet, life on this planet, humans, human history, and the meeting of my parents in which one of some millions of sperm met the egg of the month. This then led to a chain of necessary and unalterable series of events causing the circumstances of my life and the direction of my thoughts, all of which are culminating in the writing of this essay. All things and events similarly exist, and are thus provable using the principles we logically derive from observing this interlocking system of “Nature”. It is a closed system: to the Naturalist, there are no foreigners to land on Nature's shores.

    The Supernaturalist, on the other hand, contends that while Nature does indeed exist as an interlocking matrix of ‘cause and effect’ as described above, ‘Nature’ is not synonymous with ‘all that exists’. Nature exists in an open system in which at least one and possibly many Natures similarly exist, but not necessarily with the same ground-rules. As a matter of fact, if our Nature herself was 'caused', then one of these other Natures must differ from ours in the sense that it is both non-derivative and creative. The Supernaturalist calls this “Supernature”, a mode of existence which is neither dependent on our own familiar Nature nor subject to the law of causation. As such, it is necessarily unobservable by our own Nature on Nature’s own terms: namely, the scientific method.

    How, then, can we decide which of these two views is correct? By science? As we have shown, the only way science can empirically prove the existence of ‘God’ is if the Naturalist position is correct. But if ‘God’ were empirically proven, He would necessarily be a part of Nature, and thus not Supernatural – nor God – at all. To prove Him scientifically would be to disprove Him. In other words, if the Naturalist position is correct, science could never offer proof of Supernature because once science proves a thing, it proves that thing belongs to Nature. If the Supernaturalist’s position is correct, no manner of science could ever offer proof of a supernatural God, because by definition God is 'not of Nature', the only realm where science is equipped to speak. "...god isn't a scientific phenomenon, and hence cannot be evaluated using scientific methods."**

    Suppose I write a sentence like this: My grandmother ate chicken and cheese puffs until she didn’t know where all the cheese puffs went to. Apart from my comment possibly showing disrespect to my grandmother, the sentence ends in a preposition. Suppose you claimed that ending a sentence in a preposition is grammatically incorrect. If I wished, I could ask you to prove it. You would prove your position (or mine) by referring to a rulebook of English grammar, which is an appropriate way to prove an assertion about grammar. But suppose you claimed that my grandmother never ate chicken and cheese puffs together. You might prove your assertion legally (by calling witnesses who observed my grandmother’s eating habits or producing a journal by my grandmother attesting she had never eaten the combination). You might prove the assertion historically (by proving cheese puffs did not exist in my grandmother’s day). But you would be silly to try to prove your assertion grammatically. It isn’t a question of grammar at all.

    Thus, when a Supernaturalist maintains, “There is a mode of existence, and a Being who exists in that mode, which operates independently of the cause-and-effect system on which science depends in order to prove or disprove anything,” it is nonsensical to require a proof by means which the assertion, if true, necessarily excludes. Science has about as much to do with Supernature as a book of Grammar has to do with my grandmother's gastronomy.

    The presupposition that “all that exists must be empirically measurable” is precisely the claim that the Supernaturalist calls into question. The Naturalist cannot reasonably defend this claim by relying upon the very presupposition the Supernaturalist questions in the first place.

    The second presupposition to my friend’s argument is that “scientific proof” trumps all other kinds of proof. Since we now know there can be no such thing as scientific proof of that which – if it exists at all - is inherently beyond the grasp of science, this idea must also be false. However, this does not exclude the possibility of God being provable by other means. Most notably, there remains the possibility that God’s existence may be proven logically.

    The third presupposition to my atheist friend’s argument is that empirical proofs can be true. With this I wholeheartedly agree. But the presupposition rests upon the further presupposition – or rather it implies – that human reason (by which all science is ascertained) can produce a genuine insight into the way things really are, and not just the illusions of nonrational causes. Science is a system of inquiry into truth about nature. This system did not appear by itself one day at Francis Bacon's doorstep, swaddled in litmus paper. It was discovered by means of human reason. If human reason cannot possibly produce real truths, then no science can be true. But if Naturalism is true (namely, that there is no supernatural nor is there a supernatural God) , and the interlocking system of cause-and -effect is responsible for all things which exist (including human reason and ideas and theories), then every argument is necessarily and naturally caused. If Naturalism is true, then a scientist who comes to a conclusion about the efficacy of a chemical to reverse male baldness does not do so because he has examined the evidence empirically, but because he was caused to do so by an inexorable chain of events which began at the big bang. He had no choice but to come to that conclusion - the movement of atoms behaving as the law of causation demands forced the scientist to come to that conclusion.

    This is a terrible problem for the Naturalist, because if an argument is caused naturally, we have no way of knowing whether or not it is really grounded logically. Every thought or theory our minds produce (if Naturalism is true) is then a result of natural causes and not the 'if, then' process of logical thought. If I think my grandmother ate cheese puffs because events have forced me to think this, then any logical reasons I have for thinking so are just an illusory by-product of Nature and not a genuine insight into anything true. Nor can anything my reason produce be true…including Naturalism...including science itself.*** Thus a theory (Naturalism) which makes science the ultimate arbiter of truth proves that there can be no such thing as truth at all, scientific or otherwise.

    On the other hand, if my reason has a source outside the interlocking cause-and-effect chain of events called Nature, then it may in fact be capable of true insights. The Supernaturalist maintains precisely this position: that a Reasonable Being not subject to Nature’s closed and inexorable system has invaded Nature and imbued some of its inhabitants with the ability to reason. If God exists, science can be true.

    I realize that it seems unnatural to think about our thoughts themselves in this way, but then again thinking itself is one of the least natural things you can do. It is a connection point with something beyond Nature, and its very ability to do what it is supposed to do rests upon the fact of the existence of that ‘beyond’. Thus, in a roundabout sense science provides compelling evidence for the existence of God; not by the performance of a series of experiments in controlled conditions, but by our confidence in the validity of science itself. "Can science prove the existence of God?" It cannot, in the sense that the scientific method is helpless when applied to the Supernatural; but it does indeed point to the necessity of the supernatural if any of science's claims are true. Certainty of any kind must have roots deeper than the topsoil of our own universe.


    _____________________________________________________________________


    * The obvious exception to this orderliness of cause and effect is the behavior of subatomic particles. If the physicists who study these particles can really show that their behavior has no ‘cause and effect’ relationship, then Nature does have a trap door. However, having a more traditional bias in favor of empiricism when it comes to the study of natural phenomena, I suspect that someday the behavior of these particles will be sown to have such a relationship – if only in a different way than we expected. In other words, I don’t want to get my hopes up.

    **Barry Purcell, in personal correspondence to me. His comment was meant to effectively sum up the first part of my argument, not necessarily to agree with my conclusion.

    ***I am not the first to make this argument. C.S. Lewis presents it in detail in Miracles, was refuted by Elizabeth Anscombe and then much improved it in corrected form in the later edition of Miracles (corrected enough to win Dr. Anscombe's admiration if not agreement). Victor Reppert takes the basic argument and restructures it in many enlightening ways in C.S. Lewis' Dangerous Idea. Dr. Francis Schaeffer argues something similar in the chapter "The Epistemological Necessity" from He is There and He is not Silent. Forms of this argument have also been used deftly by philosopher Alvin Plantinga. Traditionally it is known as "The Argument by Reason", but I refer to it as "The Thinking Cap Argument".

  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    By Marilyn Adamson

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    Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

    But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

    When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God. 1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." 2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

    1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

    Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

    The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. 3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

    And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents. 4

    Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

    It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

    Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

    Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

    Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

    Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water. 6

    2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.

    The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

    3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.

    The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?

    Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.

    4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.

    This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all.

    There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence--arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?

    5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

    I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

    I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

    Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

    6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us.

    Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

    He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." 8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me." 9

    What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing. 10

    Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

    Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you." 11 This is God, in action.

    Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." 12

    God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.

    If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

    This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]." 13 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."

    God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand." 14

    So, does God exist? Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way. If you need more information about Jesus' claim to divinity, or about God's existence, or if you have similar important questions, please email us.


    altI just asked Jesus into my life (some helpful information follows)...

    altI may want to ask Jesus into my life, please explain this more fully...

    altI have a question...


    About the Author: As a former atheist, Marilyn Adamson found it difficult to refute the continuously answered prayers and quality of life of a close friend. In challenging the beliefs of her friend, Marilyn was amazed to learn the wealth of objective evidence pointing to the existence of God. After about a year of persistent questioning, she responded to God's offer to come into her life and has found faith in Him to be constantly substantiated and greatly rewarding.

    (1) Romans 1:19-21
    (2) Jeremiah 29:13-14
    (3) R.E.D. Clark, Creation (London: Tyndale Press, 1946), p. 20
    (4) The Wonders of God's Creation, Moody Institute of Science (Chicago, IL)
    (5) Ibid.
    (6) Ibid.
    (7) Ibid.
    (8) John 8:12
    (9) John 14:6
    (10) John 14:11
    (11) Jeremiah 31:3
    (12) John 3:16
    (13) Revelation 3:20
    (14) John 10:27-29

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  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    Matthew 8:5 “Now when Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, pleading with Him, 8:6 saying, Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, dreadfully tormented.
    8:7 And Jesus said to him, I will come and heal him.
    8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed.
    8:9 For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, Go, and he goes; and to another, Come, and he comes; and to my servant, Do this, and he does it.
    8:10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!”

    The story of the believing centurion is probably the best example of great faith in the New Testament. Jesus was so impressed with the centurion’s faith, he remarked that he had not found such great faith in Israel — the entire Jewish nation. One might think that such faith should have emerged from one of the religious leaders of the day, such as the Scribes or Pharisees, most of whom had been students of the scriptures from their early youth. But this man was not even a Jew, but a gentile. To make matters more unique, he was a soldier in the Roman army, whose military occupation of Palestine was viewed with disdain by most Jews.

    Ironic as it may seem, it isn’t always the religious leaders, ministers, or theologians who aspire toward spiritual things. Often, it is the unsuspecting layman, the housewife, the farmer, the soldier or other humble, common people who demonstrate great faith in God. We must never lose sight that the Gospel is a simple message which has no respect of persons, nor requires any special credentials to believe it. The legacy of the centurion is recorded without benefit of his name, but the title of his rank tells us that he was an officer with authority over 100 men. He was probably already a believer when he approached Jesus, seeing that he expressed such unusual comprehension of Christ’s authority and identity (Matt. 8:8-9).

    Note that at no time did the centurion actually ask Jesus to heal the servant. He came to the Lord with a somber report of his servant’s suffering, but stopped short of making any request for healing. Apparently he was trying to assess the Lord’s will in the matter, awaiting his response to the crisis at hand. Perhaps he was hesitant of how Jesus would respond to the request of a non-Jew, especially since he was a soldier in the unpopular Roman army. Or maybe he wondered whether Jesus would even consider taking the time to help a mere servant.

    Without hesitation, Jesus voluntarily offered to the centurion, “I will come and heal him” (Matt. 8:7). There was no more question whether it was the Lord’s will to heal the servant. Not only was Jesus willing, but by his own suggestion, was ready to go out of his way to the centurion’s home to perform the healing. What encouragement this must have been, to sense Jesus’ compassion, to witness His eagerness to bring relief and healing to a poor sick soul of low estate.

    The centurion’s humble, confident response to all this was most remarkable. In essence he said, “Lord, I’m unworthy to have you as a guest in my home, but because I am a man with authority and am acquainted with giving orders to others, I understand your authority, and know that all you have to do is speak your word and my servant will be healed” (Matt. 8:5-10).

    From the account of the centurion, there are four important principles which we learn about great faith:

    (1) Great faith begins as a follower of Christ, knowing him personally, realizing his divine authority.

    It is obvious that the centurion came to Jesus with an unusual perception of Christ’s position and authority. It is likely that he had been an observer and a follower of Jesus for some time. This indicates that the first step toward a faith which results in answered prayers, is to be a follower of Jesus Christ. We must have a proper relationship with Him, which enables us to approach God with the confidence that our heart is surrendered to the purpose of his will. Not only as our savior, but as Lord, our beloved master, whom we follow and serve with all our heart, endeavoring to keep his commandments and do those things which are pleasing to him. As the scripture says, “Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight” (1 John 3:21-22).

    (2) The motives of great faith are pure, and are in harmony with the will of God.

    The centurion boldly brought his need to Jesus to find out what his will was concerning the afflicted servant. He was not presumptuous or demanding, but reverent and submissive. As for his motive, his concern was not for himself, but over the suffering and need of someone else - in fact, a mere servant of whom were often considered the lowest class of people.

    It is necessary that we ascertain the will of God in respect to our desires and requests. The scriptures clearly indicate that God answers those prayers which are in accordance to His will, not just our own. To have faith’s assurance for the desired results of our prayers, our requests must be based upon the criteria of God’s wants and desires. Prayer should not be viewed as merely a way to obtain our wishes, but a means that God uses to perpetrate His own desires. The Bible says, “Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him” (1 John 5:14-15).

    God’s will is revealed through the record of His Word to us, in the Bible. We can possess faith for anything promised to us in God’s Word, and if we want God’s provisions, it is necessary for us to bring our needs to Him. James said that we “do not have because we do not ask” (James 4:2). But he also warned that some prayers will go unanswered because of improper motives: “You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures” (James 4:3). Lust is a carnal, self-willed, evil desire of the flesh, and one of the major reasons for ineffectual prayer. Are most of our requests based upon our own selfish interests? Materialistic wants? Or, is our faith directed toward winning lost souls to Christ, praying for the sick and afflicted, or the needs of the poor and homeless? Our motives in relationship with God’s will must be major considerations in our faith.

    (3) Great faith has a humble heart, cognizant of the grace and compassion of God, whereby He loves and blesses us.

    There was no doubt of the sincere humility of the centurion and his apparent high esteem and honor, placed in the person of Jesus. He confessed his unworthiness, his lowly undeserving status for Jesus to even come into his home.

    The scripture states that “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6). The word “humble” means self-abasement. We are totally dependent upon God, His mercy and His strength. What God does for us, in response to our requests, is not because we have earned or deserve anything. What God does is because of His love and grace (unmerited favor) manifested through the redemption of Jesus Christ. He tells us that when we are in need to come unto the throne of His “grace” that we might find His help. The Bible says, “Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need” (Heb. 4:16).

    (4) Great faith has a complete trust in the dependability of God’s Word, and accepts it as fact above any other evidence or circumstance.

    The centurion was so thoroughly convinced of the authority of Christ’s Word that He did not find it necessary for Jesus to personally visit the servant. He felt assured that if Christ would only just give the command, the healing would respond. He did not need to see anything or feel anything, but was willing to rest solely upon the premise of the spoken Word.

    Such were the characteristics of Abraham’s faith, who believed God’s Word of promise, even though all natural circumstances were against him and there were no signs of the promise for 17 years. “He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform” (Rom. 4:20-21).

    God’s Word is the very basis of our faith. His Word is the source of all creation, and nothing can withstand its power or force. His Word is absolutely trustworthy, in fact more trustworthy than the things of this world, which we can see or perceive with our senses. The believer must surrender his total confidence to the Word, even without any shred of visible evidence, or even in spite of contrary evidence.

    May God encourage you to follow these principles of great faith!

  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    This whole post is about a suject that has raged for thousands of years. I could start postings today and until forever the quality studies that have shown God's word as truth.

    But as any reasonable person can see from comments in this thread it would be discluded as junk. On the other hand, there a people that can post forever things they believe disproves the bible and it would not matter on bit to a person that has a relationship with God and Christ.

    There is a river of hate held for Christian teachings veiled very thinly dispite being cloaked in nice platitudes display in many of these post. The person trying to disprove "Faith" take on a superior attitude and a condescending veiw of people of faith. When they are talk to the same way they simply can't understand it? They make comments about my mom is but one of many points when I came back with judgment it was a real insult.

    The point is these imaginary agruments that one concludes are going to save mankind from religion is a world of unreality for people that have based their whole life on doing good for other because they love God. It is a direct insult to men and woman of faith that have given their life for others and sacrificed time money in service for other to concluded their acts of faith and love is done because they are too weak minded and uneducated to understand what they are really doing. Moreover, it is a sicking insult to the thousands of faithful Christain that lost their lives at the hands of the Romans and cruel dictators of our recent world to state they were fools for doing so.

    Anyone stating such falacious reasoning has never stood in the shadow of great people of faith or they would be ashamed of themselve of such ulgy thoughts about them. A person of no faith cannot see God having a personal relationship with His children the loving and kind care He has for them.

    People all over the world turn their back on every sort of relationship from marriage to children firends, family and bosses. Yet when some one states they have walked with God for years and love him as their best friend and have a personal relationship with God. People like some on this post think a person is uneducated and to stupid to know what a relationship is. That my friend is disrepect and condescending and a insult to people of faith.

    Furthermore, people on this post that have walked with God longer then most have been alive assume they are old fools and have done so out of being mislead. I promise you this one day you will long for those people to be a part of your life. They are rich with love and wisdom through their faith in God. People have throughout history thought if they could just drag something down how much better their world would be. I have witnesses it in my own life time all this hate for people that love God.

    Anytime you drag anything through the mud right or wrong the mud get stuck in your throat and on your clothes. Every fool thinks he is saving the world in his own time the diferent is real Christain no the only one that can save this world.

    I am further sadden that some think because JW's were wrong or they were wronged by them as I was that a person has no faith in God. Some of us strengten our faith and devotion because of those trials of being a JW. If those same people were honest with themselves it was their need to worship men and not God that put them with in the ranks of JW's. Anyone wanting the truth not worship of man will see it simply by reading the bible and searching for the truth about God.

    There are hundreds of red-flags we chose to ignore the fear is we let ourselves be mislead and that is why so many are easy prey for post like this.

  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    Ok I think I have your jest. 1.) the bible has been disproven, by who? 2.) the bible has been proven to those that believe in it.

    So faith is based on what you can see like love you can see people loving people? Will billions of people on this earth have confessed faith in God so there must be a God?

    So let see if I have it yet because you don't believe in God or you don't have enough faith there is a God then there is no faith or no God.

    So let put faith in your beliefs.

    "You think you have an imaginary friend with you because you want to believe that. Life can be good at times, and bad at other times, but whatever happens, you still think God is with you. If your mother was shot in the head tomorrow, you'd still think God was with you. If you "

    An imaginary friend is an imaginary belief. So you have an imaginary friend as well "No God" when judgment day comes will you still think there is "No God"?

    What your really stating your superior that your smarter then people that have faith and if they still believe in God they are foolish and weak minded. Your lack of faith can not produce good it produces distust and if you can get people to believe your way then your faith in your beliefs are reinforced.

    Sound much like what you excuse foolish Chirstain of.

  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    You are reading what you want to prove your point. You stated that we must reject God because people where killed in the bible that is your standard for rejecting God.

    God never stated any where that He does not kill people. Nether does any govenment - you think because it is God you have a choice if He can kill people, but the same does not apply to the United States - you may not like it but it is a fact of life.

    I stated based on your theory one would have to reject most government in he history of man. I also stated there are millions of Chirstian that never believed they could kill anyone even JW's believe that - history is full of Chirstian that did not.

    You stated Zeus worshiper never killed anyone well that statement is false for some Zeus worshpers so we must reject Zeus as well.

    My point is you don't like Chirstain so make your point and I am stating what you judge will be judge back. If your condemnation was as rigtheous of all subject you perhaps could see the truth about all mans history.

  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    Which Nation Listed Did not Spill Blood - Zesus Worshipers?

    Chapter 15. The Worship of the Oak.

    THE WORSHIP of the oak tree or of the oak god appears to have been shared by all the branches of the Aryan stock in Europe. Both Greeks and Italians associated the tree with their highest god, Zeus or Jupiter, the divinity of the sky, the rain, and the thunder. Perhaps the oldest and certainly one of the most famous sanctuaries in Greece was that of Dodona, where Zeus was revered in the oracular oak. The thunder-storms which are said to rage at Dodona more frequently than anywhere else in Europe, would render the spot a fitting home for the god whose voice was heard alike in the rustling of the oak leaves and in the crash of thunder. Perhaps the bronze gongs which kept up a humming in the wind round the sanctuary were meant to mimick the thunder that might so often be heard rolling and rumbling in the coombs of the stern and barren mountains which shut in the gloomy valley. In Boeotia, as we have seen, the sacred marriage of Zeus and Hera, the oak god and the oak goddess, appears to have been celebrated with much pomp by a religious federation of states. And on Mount Lycaeus in Arcadia the character of Zeus as god both of the oak and of the rain comes out clearly in the rain charm practised by the priest of Zeus, who dipped an oak branch in a sacred spring. In his latter capacity Zeus was the god to whom the Greeks regularly prayed for rain. Nothing could be more natural; for often, though not always, he had his seat on the mountains where the clouds gather and the oaks grow. On the Acropolis at Athens there was an image of Earth praying to Zeus for rain. And in time of drought the Athenians themselves prayed, “Rain, rain, O dear Zeus, on the cornland of the Athenians and on the plains.” 1

    Again, Zeus wielded the thunder and lightning as well as the rain. At Olympia and elsewhere he was worshipped under the surname of Thunderbolt; and at Athens there was a sacrificial hearth of Lightning Zeus on the city wall, where some priestly officials watched for lightning over Mount Parnes at certain seasons of the year. Further, spots which had been struck by lightning were regularly fenced in by the Greeks and consecrated to Zeus the Descender, that is, to the god who came down in the flash from heaven. Altars were set up within these enclosures and sacrifices offered on them. Several such places are known from inscriptions to have existed in Athens. 2

    Thus when ancient Greek kings claimed to be descended from Zeus, and even to bear his name, we may reasonably suppose that they also attempted to exercise his divine functions by making thunder and rain for the good of their people or the terror and confusion of their foes. In this respect the legend of Salmoneus probably reflects the pretensions of a whole class of petty sovereigns who reigned of old, each over his little canton, in the oak-clad highlands of Greece. Like their kinsmen the Irish kings, they were expected to be a source of fertility to the land and of fecundity to the cattle; and how could they fulfil these expectations better than by acting the part of their kinsman Zeus, the great god of the oak, the thunder, and the rain? They personified him, apparently, just as the Italian kings personified Jupiter. 3

    In ancient Italy every oak was sacred to Jupiter, the Italian counterpart of Zeus; and on the Capitol at Rome the god was worshipped as the deity not merely of the oak, but of the rain and the thunder. Contrasting the piety of the good old times with the scepticism of an age when nobody thought that heaven was heaven, or cared a fig for Jupiter, a Roman writer tells us that in former days noble matrons used to go with bare feet, streaming hair, and pure minds, up the long Capitoline slope, praying to Jupiter for rain. And straightway, he goes on, it rained bucketsful, then or never, and everybody returned dripping like drowned rats. “But nowadays,” says he, “we are no longer religious, so the fields lie baking.” 4

    When we pass from Southern to Central Europe we still meet with the great god of the oak and the thunder among the barbarous Aryans who dwelt in the vast primaeval forests. Thus among the Celts of Gaul the Druids esteemed nothing more sacred than the mistletoe and the oak on which it grew; they chose groves of oaks for the scene of their solemn service, and they performed none of their rites without oak leaves. “The Celts,” says a Greek writer, “worship Zeus, and the Celtic image of Zeus is a tall oak.” The Celtic conquerors, who settled in Asia in the third century before our era, appear to have carried the worship of the oak with them to their new home; for in the heart of Asia Minor the Galatian senate met in a place which bore the pure Celtic name of Drynemetum, “the sacred oak grove” or “the temple of the oak.” Indeed the very name of Druids is believed by good authorities to mean no more than “oak men.” 5

    In the religion of the ancient Germans the veneration for sacred groves seems to have held the foremost place, and according to Grimm the chief of their holy trees was the oak. It appears to have been especially dedicated to the god of thunder, Donar or Thunar, the equivalent of the Norse Thor; for a sacred oak near Geismar, in Hesse, which Boniface cut down in the eighth century, went among the heathen by the name of Jupiter’s oak (robur Jovis), which in old German would be Donares eih, “the oak of Donar.” That the Teutonic thunder god Donar, Thunar, Thor was identified with the Italian thunder god Jupiter appears from our word Thursday, Thunar’s day, which is merely a rendering of the Latin dies Jovis. Thus among the ancient Teutons, as among the Greeks and Italians, the god of the oak was also the god of the thunder. Moreover, he was regarded as the great fertilising power, who sent rain and caused the earth to bear fruit; for Adam of Bremen tells us that “Thor presides in the air; he it is who rules thunder and lightning, wind and rains, fine weather and crops.” In these respects, therefore, the Teutonic thunder god again resembled his southern counterparts Zeus and Jupiter. 6

    Amongst the Slavs also the oak appears to have been the sacred tree of the thunder god Perun, the counterpart of Zeus and Jupiter. It is said that at Novgorod there used to stand an image of Perun in the likeness of a man with a thunder-stone in his hand. A fire of oak wood burned day and night in his honour; and if ever it went out the attendants paid for their negligence with their lives. Perun seems, like Zeus and Jupiter, to have been the chief god of his people; for Procopius tells us that the Slavs “believe that one god, the maker of lightning, is alone lord of all things, and they sacrifice to him oxen and every victim.” 7

    The chief deity of the Lithuanians was Perkunas or Perkuns, the god of thunder and lightning, whose resemblance to Zeus and Jupiter has often been pointed out. Oaks were sacred to him, and when they were cut down by the Christian missionaries, the people loudly complained that their sylvan deities were destroyed. Perpetual fires, kindled with the wood of certain oak-trees, were kept up in honour of Perkunas; if such a fire went out, it was lighted again by friction of the sacred wood. Men sacrificed to oak-trees for good crops, while women did the same to lime-trees; from which we may infer that they regarded oaks as male and lime-trees as female. And in time of drought, when they wanted rain, they used to sacrifice a black heifer, a black he-goat, and a black cock to the thunder god in the depths of the woods. On such occasions the people assembled in great numbers from the country round about, ate and drank, and called upon Perkunas. They carried a bowl of beer thrice round the fire, then poured the liquor on the flames, while they prayed to the god to send showers. Thus the chief Lithuanian deity presents a close resemblance to Zeus and Jupiter, since he was the god of the oak, the thunder, and the rain. 8

    From the foregoing survey it appears that a god of the oak, the thunder, and the rain was worshipped of old by all the main branches of the Aryan stock in Europe, and was indeed the chief deity of their pantheon. 9

  • serotonin_wraith
    100

    Staying a Christian Upon Leaving

    by serotonin_wraith in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    so you found out the jehovah's witness religion/cult was bogus.

    congratulations, it's a step in the right direction.

    now all you have to do is escape the cult of christianity.. while other christian groups are (perhaps arguably) less controlling (on the whole), the foundation christianity rests on is bogus too.

    1. writetoknow
    2. BurnTheShips
    3. writetoknow
  • writetoknow
    writetoknow

    Wow! self-righteous condemnation. Sorry partner most real Christain never thought about killing any one some did read the car maunal wrong. If your talking about a nation a government that once exited and had kings that ruled it like king David and others in the old testiment.

    Well look no further then all governments not many in the history of man did not go to war! So lets reject all government based on your subjective conclusion.

    So are you saying because some one dies there is no God? Because bad things happen to good and bad people that proves there is no God? By the way my Mother passed a number of years ago from cancers. No body in my family doubt God.

    All the gods of the past have blood tied in someway from their worship through government. No my friend God is no Santa Claus giving every one a life without problems your reading the wrong book the bible never states that.

    Life isn't fair with or without God if you have no God man would still do ugly act in some other name. Furthermore, you cannot prove there no God through your theory no more then you I can prove there is to people that have made you their mine.

    And your wrong to conclude that all people that have been rejected from some form of man's religion no longer believes there is a God many have better relationship and understanding of God. They realize God is not the Santa Claus and actually come to love Him more.