And weren't you the one criticizing the Pew poll, the one about how 63% of people raised as JWs eventually leave the organization, for having a "too small" polling sample?
Oh god I remember that thread! Can we please not do THAT again???
still_in74
JoinedPosts by still_in74
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Witnesses increase by 44% in 7 years Study Finds: 2001-2008
by Joker10 ina more detailed look at the just released american religious identification survey (aris) shows witnesses have increased from 1,331,000 in 1991 to 1,914,000in 2008. that is 583,000 more people, or a whopping 43.8 percent growth.
they now make up 0.8 percent of the u.s. population.. who says jws are in the decline?.
(http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/americanreligionsurvey-aris/reports/aris_report_2008.pdf).
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still_in74
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Organ Transplants Bad->Good / Blood Transfusions Bad->Good ?
by still_in74 inso after all this what is acceptable and what is not?
acceptable.
not acceptable.
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still_in74
could never understand that either, until I realized it is a different society today than it was in the early 80's. Plus, the j.w.'s in those days...maybe also today? wouldn't sue the Watchtower Society, because even though they lost a loved one to the ridiculous practice of refusing organ transplants, would never THINK of sueing "God's Channel of Communication."
its amazing isnt it? when you read all those articles about not suing our brothers, who is the WTS really protecting? Us? I think not!
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Organ Transplants Bad->Good / Blood Transfusions Bad->Good ?
by still_in74 inso after all this what is acceptable and what is not?
acceptable.
not acceptable.
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still_in74
But the problem with them ever printing anything like what you've concocted is that it might lead to a wave of lawsuitsfrom people who lost loved ones to death after refusing blood
I agree 100% In fact i believe this to be the only reason that the WTS introduced the rediculous blood-fraction theory.
Note thought, my "concoction" is almost word for word from the March 15, 1980 article on organ transplants quoted above. my substitutions are italicized and they are minimal..... -
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Organ Transplants Bad->Good / Blood Transfusions Bad->Good ?
by still_in74 inso after all this what is acceptable and what is not?
acceptable.
not acceptable.
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still_in74
So what do you think? The whole blood fraction thing is rediculous, we all know that. But is it "warming" the R&F up for a shift to blood being a conscience decision?
Pay particular attention to the WT of 1980............. some interesting wording here folks!
Or gan Transplants are a conscience decision
*** w61 8/1p.480QuestionsFromReaders***
Questions FromReaders
? Is there anything in the Bible against giving one’s eyes (afterdeath)to be transplanted to some living person?—L.C.,UnitedStates.
The question of placing one’s body or parts of one’s body at the disposal of men of science or doctors at one’s death for purposes of scientific experimentation or replacement in others is frowned upon by certain religious bodies. However, it does not seem that any Scriptural principle or law is involved. It therefore is something that each individual must decide for himself. If he is satisfied in his own mind and conscience that this is a proper thing to do, then he can make such provision, and no one else should criticize him for doing so. On the other hand, no one should be criticized for refusing to enter into any such agreement.
Organ Transplants are BAD
*** w67 11/15pp.702-704QuestionsFromReaders***
Questions FromReaders
? Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one’s body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source?—W.L.,U.S.A.
...
Humans were allowed by God to eat animal flesh and to sustain their human lives by taking the lives of animals, though they were not permitted to eat blood. Did this include eating human flesh, sustaining one’s life by means of the body or part of the body of another human, alive or dead? No! That would be cannibalism, a practice abhorrent to all civilized people. Jehovah clearly made a distinction between the lives of animals and the lives of humans, mankind being created in God’s image, with his qualities. (Gen. 1:27) This distinction is evident in His next words. God proceeded to show that man’s life is sacred and is not to be taken at will, as may be done with the animals to be used for food. To show disrespect for the sanctity of human life would make one liable to have his own life taken.—Gen. 9:5, 6.
When there is a diseased or defective organ, the usual way health is restored is by taking in nutrients. The body uses the food eaten to repair or heal the organ, gradually replacing the cells. When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others.
Organ Transplants are a conscience decision
*** w80 3/15p.31QuestionsFromReaders***
? Should congregation action be taken if a baptized Christian accepts a human organ transplant, such as of a cornea or a kidney?
Regarding the transplantation of human tissue or bone from one human to another, this is a matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
... The congregation judicial committee would not take disciplinary action if someone accepted an organ transplant.
What does this have to do with BLOOD?
Here is the Watchtower’s history on the issue of blood
? 1940 Blood transfusions are acceptable
? 1945 Blood transfusion are not acceptable
? 1956 Blood serums should be treated as blood and are banned
? 1958 Blood serums and fractions acceptable
? 1959 Storage of own blood unacceptable
? 1961 Blood fractions are not acceptable
? 1964 Blood fractions are acceptable
? 1974 Blood serums are personal choice
? 1975 Hemophilia treatments (Factor VII & IX) are not acceptable
? 1978 Hemophilia treatments (Factor VII & IX) are acceptable
? 1982 Albumin is acceptable
? 1983 Hemodilution is acceptable
? 1990 Hemodilution is not acceptable (Blood Brochure)
? 1995 Hemodilution is acceptable
So after all this what is acceptable and what is not?Acceptable
? Albumin
? Immunonoglobulins
? Hemophilia preparations (Factor VII & IX)
? Hemodialysis
Not acceptable
? Whole blood
? Plasma
? White blood cell (Leukocytes)
? Red blood cells
? Platelets
? Storage of blood outside of the body
The reasoning and logic behind how the Watchtower decides what is acceptable and what is not seems somewhat flawed. If we consider their current policy with
regard plasma we see that it’s composition is made up of 92% water with the remaining 8% made up from Albumin, Immunoglobulins, fibrinogen and
coagulation factors.
So in fact every thing contained within blood plasma is on the Watchtower’s acceptable list but blood plasma on its own is not.
So one can assume that as long as a patient requiring plasma receives the principle components separately there is not a problem.The ban on white blood (Leukocytes) cells is also illogical given that only 3 percent of a bodies total Leukocytes are contained in the blood system, with the
other 97% being distributed through the body tissue. As the Watchtower now allows for organ transplants a patient receiving one will actually receive into his
body more leukocytes from the tissue in the organ than they would if they had a blood transfusion. It is also worth noting that mother’s breast milk contains as much as
12 times more Leukocytes than that found in a similar quantity of blood.The Watchtower makes a big deal out of their stance on blood when they talk about the benefits from abstaining from it. For example they state that from not
having a blood transfusion the patient protects themselves from the risk of contracting diseases such as AIDS that may have contaminated the blood. The Watchtower fail to point out that Hemophilia preparation which were the major cause of transfusion acquired AIDS is on Watchtower’s acceptable list.Will BLOOD become a conscience decision like Organ Transplants did?
Blood Transfusions are a conscience decision (?) - article generated from 1980 article above
***w2015 3/15 p.31QuestionsFromReaders***
? Should congregation action be taken if a baptized Christian accepts a medical treatment involving the use of particular blood fractions or a combination of all blood fractions?
Regarding the transfusion of human blood from one human to another, this is a matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Some Christians might feel that taking into their bodies any tissue or body part from another human is cannibalistic. They might hold that the transfused blood is intended to become part of the recipient’s body to keep him alive and functioning. They might not see it as fundamentally different from consuming blood through the mouth. Such feelings may arise from considering that God did not make specific provision for man to eat the flesh of his fellowman when he made provision for humans to eat the flesh of animals that had been drained of their life-sustaining blood.
Other sincere Christians today may feel that the Bible does not definitely rule out medical use of blood. They may reason that in some cases the human material is not expected to become a permanent part of the recipient’s body. Body cells are said to be replaced about every seven years, and this would be true of any human blood that would be transfused. It may be argued, too, that medical blood transfusions are different from cannibalism since the “donor” is not killed to supply food.
Clearly, personal views and conscientious feelings vary on this issue of medical treatments involving blood. It is well known that the use of human materials for human consumption varies all the way from minor items, such as hormones and corneas, to major organs, such as kidneys and hearts. While the Bible specifically forbids consuming blood, there is no Biblical command pointedly forbidding the taking in of blood for medical use from humans where no life was taken. For this reason, each individual faced with making a decision on this matter should carefully and prayerfully weigh matters and then decide conscientiously what he or she could or could not do before God. It is a matter for personal decision. (Gal. 6:5) The congregation judicial committee would not take disciplinary action if someone accepted a blood transfustion.
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Hello! I am no longer a Lurker!
by VIII ini have been reading the board for months and have been waiting to join!
thanks for allowing new members.
i was a jw.
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still_in74
welcome to the board,
you have a PM
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Do you REALLY know how crazy J. Rutherford was?
by gumby inbelow is an interview with the drunken, pipe-dreamin, selfish, psychopathic bastard back in 1930.. the interview with j.f.
rutherford that appeared in the sun diego sun, march 15, 1930. .
"but how will you identify king david or any of the other representatives from god?
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still_in74
Below is an interview with the drunken, pipe-dreamin, selfish, psychopathic bastard back in 1930.
I havent even read the article yet and already I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm Finally Registered!
by SuspiciousMinds inwow - finally!.
after several months of reading this forum daily, i'm finally registered and able to post!
i know many of you well from reading current threads almost daily since last summer.
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still_in74
wow a fan! welcome to the board.
Some new blood on here is definitely going to bring some life back.
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Intellectual Dishonesty - Maximus post revisited
by still_in74 inhey all,.
i just was looking at some of maximus' old post and re-enjoyed his first topic.
its a great thread about the intellectual dishonesty of the wt and in this instance regarding blood.... i posted a portion below.
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still_in74
What happened to him? What's he doing now?
i wish i knew! Does anyone know of Maximus anymore? Not a single post of his is not read from start to finish!
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Disassociation of Anthony Munoz
by still_in74 inthis letter made my blood boil !
not at munoz but the wts .
you can see the whole thing here http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/anthonymunoz.htm.
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still_in74
this letter made my blood boil ! Not at Munoz but the WTS His logic is great & inspiring to say the least. I cant help but ask myself why cant all JW's see this? Why arent they all running for their lives? A question i do well to ask myself
You can see the whole thing here http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/anthonymunoz.htm
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You have claimed many times in your publications that the Catholic Church is part of Babylon the Great. I cannot help but think that in many respects you yourself are a miniature imitation of them. You both have hierarchical structures; where you protect those at the top and favor them with many privileges, be Elders, Circuit Overseers, District Overseers or members of the Governing Body. Thus you have a caste system with centralized power.
It seems to me that your aim is to build an empire and amass as much wealth as you can and by all means possible, for example:
1. By selling of books and magazines produced with slave labor at your factories, just for food and lodging, like slaves in the U.S. were given food and lodging to keep them alive, before the Civil War freed them. For over a hundred years you sold your publications, but now the government has stopped you from selling your publications and you only beg for a "contribution".
2. You beg for money and pray that parents leave the inheritance that rightfully should be left to their children, to you. Contrary to what the scriptures say:
"... Children are not expected to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. " 2Cor 12:14 NJB
"...for the children ought not to lay up for [their] parents, but parents for [their] children. " 2 Cor 12:14 MY!
3. You ask for donations to construct Kingdom Halls where the brothers do not have sufficient funds to do so, and then instead of giving the money, you loan it to those brothers and on top of that you charge them interest and to top it all take title to the property. What an amazing scheme! All this contrary to what the Scriptures say. See Exodus 22:25 and Luke 6:35. When are you going to give away that money? Or will it always be in your possession? How many billions of dollars are enough?
You for the most part ruin the life of your members. You told them that the End of this World would come in 1914 and for 40 years prior to that you told your members that the most important thing was to preach the kingdom of God and discouraged them from pursuing activities that would improve their lives, not to marry, not to have children, not to go to College. But to work for the interest of the Kingdom as misrepresented by the WT, so in other words, so that the organization could prosper. (*great point- don't prosper in this old system, just work to help us prosper!)
We well know that the End of the World did not come in 1914. But you did not learn your lesson and repeated again that then the End would come with the resurrection of Abraham and others by 1925. That didn't happen. So then you said that the End would come in 1975. During my lifetime! That didn't happen.I don't know how many times this ruse to stir the people has to be repeated to convince one that you are false prophets and that God is not with you. I know the End will come someday but nobody knows the day or the hour. Mark 13:32. You are just using God for your own benefit.
I give thanks to the Father that through Jesus Christ his Son and with the help of the Holy Spirit I have been able to escape the clutches of your organization. He tells us to escape Babylon the Great, not touch it. Rev. 18: 4. And since I view you as part of Babylon the Great, I have left you now for a number of years, but I still feel contaminated and to make it clear to whomever knew me as a Jehovah's Witness that I am now no part whatsoever of your organization, I am writing this letter of disassociation. I apologize from the bottom of my heart that I raised my children as Jehovah's Witnesses and for the damage that I did to their lives. But at least I am grateful to God that all of them have left the Watchtower as well.
Generations upon generations of Jehovah's Witnesses have been disillusioned for the last 100 years. Many would like to leave the Organization but they are afraid to do so, because not always all the members of the family leave as well and the price to pay for that step is great. If one leaves, the policy of the WT is to label one an apostate and prohibit its members to have anything to do with you under punishment that they themselves will be disfellowshipped for not following WT policy. So, at the point of a gun so to speak, the WT keeps its members penned in.
One of the things that really opened my eyes was to hear the WT say that we must restrict our reading only to the WT publications. When going door to door we offered the WT publications for the public to read but we were not to accept their publications. What was the WT afraid of that we might learn? Were the teachings of the WT so weak that our beliefs as taught by the WT were in danger? Or was it that they were afraid that we might learn the truth about the WT? I found out that the latter was the case. This led me to conclude that the WT was a cult and the more I learned about the traits of a cult the more it fitted them. I know that the WT has its own self-serving definition of what a cult is. And naturally what else would you expect but to absolve themselves.
The most brilliant means of communication is the Internet, and it is practically free. At the fingertips of anyone there is a universe of information available to all inquiring minds. Yet true to form the WT admonishes their members not to spend time searching the Internet. It is so easy now to find information about Jehovah's Witnesses that you are afraid for your members to find out the truth about your organization. You, seems to me, want to suppress the freedom of information, Yet one of the cornerstones of this country is the freedom of expression. In totalitarian countries they are afraid of what people might learn by hearing other ideas. They try to co ntrol the mind of the people by controlling what they can read or hear. Isolation is imperative to keep the people in the dark.
The WT points to their increase in membership as proof that they have God's blessing, yet there are other organizations that have greater increases than they. For example, the Mormon Church, so then under this criteria who is the true religion? I could write a book about why Jehovah's Witnesses are not true Christians, but to the wise, what I have already said should be sufficient. I have not even touched on many of your false doctrines, such as the "generation" that was alive in 1914 would see the end of the world. Or that the kingdom of Christ was established in 1914 invisibly in the heavens, how convenient to say something that nobody can prove and contrary to the Scriptures that indicate that those asleep in death and those alive together at the same time would be taken to heaven, not one ahead of the other. I Thess. 4:16,17.
Some may wonder and ask: Where are you going to go after you leave the WT Org.? But they miss the whole point of being a Christian. It is not a matter of "where" but to "whom"
"Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: "You do not want to go also do You? " Simon Peter answered him: "Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; " John 6:67,68 1VWT (Emphasis added.)
The Father has made it possible for me to see the real Jesus and I chose to follow him and not an organization. He alone has the sayings of everlasting life. He died for us. He is our intermediary between God and men not an organization. It is presumptuous for the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses to say that we need them for salvation, to act as an intermediary between Jesus and us. The only intermediary between God and men is Jesus. 1 Tim 2:5.
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Vote:DO you think the WTBTS will end with a BANG or a WHIMPER
by superman inpersonally i think it will end with a whimper.
i think that they will always have members, but after the "system" continues and more and more people get discouraged, df'd, da'd, or fade after a long enough time they will slowly continue to consilidate halls (lose members) until it finally get so small they eventually go by the wayside or switch to something like e-meetings or web-meetings or once yearly conventions.
any takers??
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still_in74
It has always been a whimper. They're only know because of their reputation of annoying people by knocking on their doors on weekends trying and get them to leave their beliefs and join the Watchtower. They really haven't done a whole lot from the time they were founded till now except leave a trail of false prophecy behind them. Only by reading their literature will go get the idea that they big players in the scheme of things.
I often forget that 99.9% know nothing about JW's except that they "bug people on Saturday morning". I remember being out in service and being shocked when I would ask the "house holder" if they had ever read the WT and they would reply that they had never heard of it!
For us here, the JW world is such a large part of our lives/history that we sometimes forget that the world for the most part, has no idea who we are, what we believe, or that we even exist. There is no "gnashing of the teeth" by Christendom by the JW expose of their hypocrasy as Rutherford used to babble on about.
JW's seem to think that when the "new system" comes the whole world will realize they JW's were right just before the birds come rip apart their bodies to the joy and laughter of 7 million JW's - Yet I suppose 99.9% of the worlds population wouldnt even know what a WT was if you smacked them in the face with one.So true about reading the WT literature - to them the whole world is talking about JW's, the whole world is sitting around waiting to attack the next "truth" they teach. - perhaps when they publish asinine blood policies the criticism they get is the only "proof" they have that anyone knows they are still around...