Posts by Flowerpetal

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Thanks Dood for the welcome. You stated:
I must agree with Tina on the point that field service is mandatory. Here is my illustration. Say you have a job that you love doing. It really doesn't matter whether you love it or not, you still HAVE to do it in order to get a paycheck. Kinda the same thing. You may LOVE going out in field service, but you still HAVE to do it to remain in good standing. If you suddenly stopped, you would probably receive a shepherding call, which usually is a checkup on the spiritually weak.

FP>>Well Dood, I am not going in field service to receive everlasting life, because let's be honest and say this is the end result of that illustration. Now the issue of me suddenly stopping preaching, would be a matter of a crisis of my faith. The real issue is reporting time. As I stated before, I can't not talk about spiritual matters. And it doesn't have to be in a field-service setting. It can be in informal witnessing. On occasion, I have had born-again Christians "witness" to me, on occasion. So I have no problem reporting time witnessing. And I don't do it so I can be considered a "good" publisher. One thing I don't like is being categorized as a legalistic, organizational witness, because I am not that kind.

Dood>>I had something else to say that was really good.....hold on...let me think....

Oh yes. I remember now. I really have no qualms with the Jehovah's Witnesses going out in field service except for one simple fact that doesn't follow the Bible at all. When Jesus went door to door, what did he teach about? His father? The answer is yes. When you go door to door, what do you preach about? The watchtower. You may argue that the watchtower is God's word, but it is simply an interpretation of God's word.

FP>>Well for me and my congregation, I can say that we don't preach the watchtower. We try to engage the person in a conversation, and direct it toward the Bible. I agree that JWs have an interpretation of the Bible--but don't other religions claiming to be Christian as well??? And they teach doctrines that I don't agree with nor do I beleive they are scriptural.

Dood>> If accuracy and sticking to the Bible was the REAL concern, then why wouldn't you just study the bible, no watchtower needed? You aren't totally incomptetant, and you don't need a magazine's help to reach the truth using the Bible. You can find it on your own.

FP>>The return visit I have now, if she wants to have a Bible study, will be one of those kinds of people where we will just use the Bible. She has been reading the magazines for years and says she gets comfort from them, however.

Dood>>I remember, i got baptized at the age of 10. How did i know the bible so well at 10? i didn't. i never even read the bible. You don't need to know the bible to be a jehovah's witness. You need to know how the JW's interpret the bible. I mean, You get to keep the green book OPEN during the entire thing, with the answers listed under the questions. LOL. How much bible study is really needed?

FP>>And I got baptized at the age of 11. And Dood, it's not a matter of how well you know the Bible to get baptized, but are you dedicated to do Jehovah's will? That should have been the question that needed answering. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have gotten baptized at 11. Personally, I think no child should get baptized until they are done with puberty. However, my mother gave me a good example. She was a spiritually minded person before becoming a witness. She was what you would call a "good" Catholic but many of their doctrines worried her and the priest couldn't answer her questions, so she looked elsewhere and her father-in-law, who was a witness by that time, showed her answers from the bible...and that was that.

Another thing I would like to say is that if the org were to be dissolved tomorrow by governmental means, or other means, some witnesses will just fall apart. But for those whose relationship is with Jehovah FIRST, they will be still depending upon him. I am in the second category.

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

Well larc,
I contribute more than that. More that 1 hour to pack things up too.

I make regular trips at least once a month to Goodwill Industries.

20

New Lurker

by YoungerTom in

jw
friends

i'm new around here please be kind to me.

i have been lurking for a while and finally figured out how to post.. my question to you is.

is jesus the mediator for everybody or just the annointed?.

Flowerpetal

Farkel>>*** w91 2/15 13 A Corresponding Ransom for All ***
13 Neither Adam nor Eve, however, benefit from the ransom. The Mosaic Law contained this principle: “You must take no ransom for the soul of a murderer who is deserving to die.” (Numbers 35:31) Adam was not deceived, so his sin was willful, deliberate. (1 Timothy 2:14)

What? Well, then since Eve wasn't deceived, it must logically follow that her sin was not willful, deliberate. Therefore, she MUST be under the benefit of the ransom!

------
Can the society really say Adam was a murderer even? As one friend kindly showed me, which has changed my thinking on this, Adam was new; so was Eve. They didn't know what sin was much less have experience with it.

54

JW Decline

by larc in

jw
friends

i found some interesting statistics, some of which you may know, that indicate that the wtbts is in decline.. 1. in the twenty years from 1970 to 1990, the rate of yearly increase dropped from 10% to 6%.

in the last 10 years it has dropped from 6% to about 2%.

since the world population growth is about 1.5% they are only growing at about 1/2 of 1% faster than the population.. 2. in 1999, there were 21 large countries that showed a decline.

Flowerpetal

Trevor>>You mentioned the fear you felt when young about the 'evil slaves.'
I remember as a boy walking towards the entrabce gates of a big London assembly
and ahead of us were some men giving out leaflets. My parents warned me and my
brothers that they were 'evil slave.' We were not to look at them, talk to them or
even get close. As we approached we quickened our pace and rushed by.
We all sneaked a quick look with a mixture of fear and exitement half expectin them
have two heads. To my surprise they looked very ordinary, were of normal size and even
smiled at us. I was quite disappointed.

-------

LOL! Thanks for that mental picture!

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

Ter>>I'm afraid I'm going to have to accept Flowerpetal's volunteer work as genuine :)
See, if the government instituted that 10 hours of volunteer work was required by law, there would still be the Mother Theresa's of the world who would be out doing it, not because it was required, but because they wanted to. Their work would still be volunteer in the most important sense of the work- they wouldn't care two bits about what the government had to say.

I agree T. And it goes without saying that in my book, Mother Theresa was a saint. I admired her very much for the selfless work she did.

T>>On the other hand, I am curious to know what you tell people at the door Flowerpetal. You believe there are certain, fairly major, problems with the Witness faith, yet going door to door you're recruiting people into an organization which has these flaws and is at _times_ quite intolerant of individuals disagreeing with them, or trying to understand the organization's faults.

I don't recruit first of all. I go to share scriptural thoughts and ask the person if they would like a Bible study. If they do, I study with them. At the end of the course, they have a decision to make and that is do they want to dedicate their life to Jehovah and symbolize it by water baptism. And they need to know that this baptism will identify them as one of JWs. But I don't make that decision for them--it is totally up to them.

T>>I understand your desire to talk about God-- and I think I even agree that it's possible to be a Christian (as Jesus intended) while still being a Witness (if you keep your mouth closed), but I think it's easier to be a Christian outside of the organization...

What is your definition of a Christian?

T>>Case in point, women. Now having never been a women in the Witnesses I'll have to rely on what my girlfriend has said about her experience, but it seems to me there is a fairly sublte (at times not very subtle) relegation of women to a secondary role. Not being able to serve as elders, or lead prayers if there are brothers there, or even being able to be parking attendants at District Conventions :)

While the last may not be important, as part of a consistent pattern, my girlfriend at least felt like a second-class spiritual member. This I believe, is an attitude which goes hideously against Jesus' attitudes during his life towards even the most marginal women in society.

Can your friend go from door-to-door just like a man? Can she go on return visits just like a man? Can she conduct bible studies just like a man? Can she give a talk at the hall just like a man? (of coursewith a householder but the information she brings out still benefits the congregation). She can be a auxilliary pioneer or regular pioneer just like a man. Being a parking lot attendant e.g. is not a gauge for the kind of spirituality Jehovah looks at, for crying out loud! And to tell you the truth, I would not want to be an elder. I don't want to know people's business that bad because it would change my attitude toward them. And I have a story about that!
And giving prayers in front of men would make me uncomfortable. Now maybe this is a strong attitude coming from the apostle Paul, but if you accept what the Bible says, God made man first. He is to be the head of the family at least.

T>>Of course, the Witness attitude is not unique, and many fundamentalist Christian groups also follow Paul's prejudices on this matter, but I think any group with an attitude like this is being very unChristian, and makes it hard for women to... I know it's a bit of a corny phrase, live up to what God created them to be

Are you a liberal Christian, T?

IMHO, we still might have a long way to go. I mean there isn't even a woman president yet and I think it might be a long time in coming. Men are uncomfortable with women's cycles, etc. and it terrifies the majority of them that a woman might be making major decisions of the country based on that! LOL

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

Flowerpetal,
Perhaps you think I am splitting hairs regarding field service. Because you do it willingly does not mean that it is voluntary. It is a requirement. It is something you have to do to stay in good standing. You may like doing it. You may do it with great joy. Nonetheless, it still is a requirement. When someone volunteers, they are doing something that they don't have to do. For those who don't enjoy field service, their is no alternative service they can perform in order to remain in good standing - hence it is a requirement.

-----
Dear larc,
I don't look at it as doing something to be in good standing with the cong. I think a lot of you guys need to realize that, at least in my eyes, are two types of JWs. One type lives for the org, is legalistic and puts Jehovah and Jesus on the back burner. Then there is the other type, the kind that puts Jehovah and Jesus first in their life. I was raised by a spiritually-minded mother who had this spirituality even before becoming a JW. I guess this rubbed off on me. Truthfully, I don't like going from door-to-door, but since I love conducting Bible studies and helping someone learn about Jehovah, and how to become a spiritual person, the only way ususally to find persons who want to study IS to go door-to-door--and that's why *I* do it. Like I said, I can't let a day go by without talking about God OR spiritual things--it's not in me. It's a ministry for me.

9

"Kneel down before reading the Watchtower...

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

i do hope you appreciate good things,.

and if you do...you should demonstrate it ..maybe like this....!.

w64 9/15 574 - kneel down before reading the watchtower.

Flowerpetal

Forgive me if this got sent already.

Mac says>>Hello everyone,
I do hope you appreciate good things,
and if you do…you should demonstrate it ..maybe like this….!

w64 9/15 574 - Kneel down before reading the Watchtower
In contrast to the attitude of these elective elders was that of an elderly couple with whom I stayed on the outskirts of Richmond, Virginia. The brother went down to get the mail before breakfast, and when we had breakfast he said, "Brother Riemer, I got a new Watchtower this morning, and do you know the first thing that Ma and I do when we get that Tower? We kneel down before we take the wrapper off and ask Jehovah to make us worthy to see what the message is that Jehovah has for us. Now, before we take the wrapper off, will you kneel down and pray with us?" How different that elective elder was from this humble couple who appreciated Jehovah's organization!
------

Good grief, this story is as old as the hills and I just heard it again a few weeks ago when our CO was visiting our cong. only that time it was an anointed couple.

[:-(

9

"Kneel down before reading the Watchtower...

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

i do hope you appreciate good things,.

and if you do...you should demonstrate it ..maybe like this....!.

w64 9/15 574 - kneel down before reading the watchtower.

Flowerpetal

Mac says>>Hello everyone,
I do hope you appreciate good things,
and if you do…you should demonstrate it ..maybe like this….!

w64 9/15 574 - Kneel down before reading the Watchtower
In contrast to the attitude of these elective elders was that of an elderly couple with whom I stayed on the outskirts of Richmond, Virginia. The brother went down to get the mail before breakfast, and when we had breakfast he said, "Brother Riemer, I got a new Watchtower this morning, and do you know the first thing that Ma and I do when we get that Tower? We kneel down before we take the wrapper off and ask Jehovah to make us worthy to see what the message is that Jehovah has for us. Now, before we take the wrapper off, will you kneel down and pray with us?" How different that elective elder was from this humble couple who appreciated Jehovah's organization!
-------

Man I just heard this story again a few weeks ago when our CO was visiting our cong. Only this time the couple was anointed!

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

larc,
I understand the reasons why I turn in time spent in service. I could never go without speaking about God for 6 months. Maybe some can, but the times I speak about him, I report the time. THe society can do what it wishes with it. If they want to report how many hours JWs spend in preaching a year, that's fine with me. My few hours make up part of that report. I don't sweat the small stuff--and to me that is small stuff.

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

larc,
I believe each individual witness should decide what charity they are going to contribute to. I have heard of a charity recently called "Second Harvest" which sounds pretty much honest as far as getting food to the people that need it. I am checking it out, and will probably choose that organization to contribute to as well as an animal shelter here in my hometown, that does great work in placing animals in good homes. I am an animal lover at heart, and I hate to see them suffer.

In the meantime, I give Goodwill Industries and have given furniture to the Salvation Army. And in my congregation, if there is someone who has fallen on some hard times, we contribute outright and there is also an emergency fund. Since all of us are taxpaying citizens, we can take advantage of governmental agencies who can assist.

Now on the opposite side of the coin, what does one do with a person who is on disability, is shown how to get housing, and is taken to all the governmental agencies where she can get housing, and some have done preliminary work for her, but she doesn't follow up and chooses instead to live in a tent in her mother's backyard? Is something wrong with the thinking or brain of that individual?