Posts by fodeja

130

America Bashing

by TR in

jw
friends

with all of the america bashing going on of late, i thought i'd mention the fact that america stands for freedom, as flawed as our system may be.

you're even free to be critical of the government and it's leaders.

the many men and women who have died defending this country did so to preserve the rights even of people who hate the u.s. there are many different cultures here, so there are many different attempts at creating laws for the land.

fodeja

TR and others,

I'm still scratching my head over this national pride thing. Maybe some of you can shed some light on this, as it is very foreign to me.

I have been lucky enough to spend my (still young) life in more than one country and continent on this little planet. I've seen some places. My family background is rather diverse. Probably that's why nationalistic pathos seems to utterly ridiculous to me. People have their good and their bad sides, they live in more or less democratic nations, and this is changing all the time. Some countries go from bad to good, then the other way round. Greatest nation on this planet, now and forever? The idea seems totally ridiculous to me. When I see people stand up, put their hands on their chest and get a weird religious glaze in their eyes just because some national anthem is playing, I feel like laughing and shaking my head at the same time.

Tell me one thing: how can you be _proud_ of being an American? I can fully understand being proud of an _accomplishment_: leading a good life, raising kids, learning a language, inventing cold fusion or just being nice to your neighbour. I can understand being proud of shaping a nation's course in some way. I can understand being grateful for being born in the first world, in a free and wealthy land.
But how, precisely, can one be _proud_ of being born in one particular area of this planet? To me, that's just totally silly. It's exactly as silly as being proud of having a white skin.

If you feel such an urge to be proud of something, be proud of being a decent person. Unfortunately, that's something we all have to keep working on - it's not just a coincidence of birthplace. In my, admittedly not humble, opinion.

f.

130

America Bashing

by TR in

jw
friends

with all of the america bashing going on of late, i thought i'd mention the fact that america stands for freedom, as flawed as our system may be.

you're even free to be critical of the government and it's leaders.

the many men and women who have died defending this country did so to preserve the rights even of people who hate the u.s. there are many different cultures here, so there are many different attempts at creating laws for the land.

fodeja

I believe the U.S. is the greatest country on earth. This is the greatest country there ever was and ever will be!

TR, I mean no offense, but I must admit there is one thing I still like about the JW religion: the refreshing, total absence of nationalistic pathos.

f.

3

JW's don't believe in the net?????

by ladonna in

jw
friends

jw's certainly believe in the net when it suits them!!!.

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/proclaimer/.

is this a joke or real????.

fodeja

The site's a spoof, but it's a nice example of subversive argumentation, too :-)

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/proclaimer/607.html

f.

23

Are "YOU" this happy ????

by ladonna in

jw
friends

teeheee....... anyone recognize the total happiness pictured here????.

remember how happy we are all supposed to be????.

here is a reminder!!!

fodeja

Considering the picture is meant to illustrate the happiness felt AFTER the resurrection has begun taking place, I guess the question whether one has ever been that happy, is rather irrelevant.

I see. So this isn't about today's spiritual paradise, supposedly found in JW congregations.

These people are hysterically happy after having witnessed (sorry for the pun) the most gruesome mass-slaughter of all history, and now they are praising the slaughterer because he's resurrecting some people who happened to die before that spectacular event.

If you ask me, this matches exactly my definition of the word "evil". Pure, undiluted evil.

f.

81

Nourishment for the Spirit

by Maximus in

jw
friends

my observation is that persons who 1) heal/adjust the most rapidly from their jw experience and 2) seem to have the most joy in life are those who read, read, read, in pursuit of what i call nourishment for the spirit.

i've really enjoy the pithy aphorisms you use here, which suggests you've distilled some wisdom from somewhere.

i'm going to ask your help in this thread.

fodeja

Dostoevsky, The Grand Inquisitor ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0023406003/ )

A short dialogue between Jesus and the senile grand inquisitor, taken from Dostoevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov". Simply brilliant.

Those who liked "Siddharta" by Hermann Hesse may also want to look into his "Demian", which is somewhat similar in spirit. It's almost like another perspective of the same theme.

f.

72

Adoption by Jehovah's Witnesses is blocked

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

adoption by jehovah's witnesses is blocked .

the independent - united kingdom; may 26, 2001. by brian farmer.

a couple originally approved by a council as adoptive parents have been refused permission by social workers to adopt a child, because they are jehovah's witnesses.

fodeja

largo,

I'm afraid you flunked the test, but I saw at least a little bit of promising effort. Come back in two weeks. Use the time to do your research at, for instance, http://www.jwbloodreview.org and http://www.ajwrb.org . You know, some people have really taken the time to find out. Actually, most people around here have. You should, too.

the use of blood for medical purposes is nothing new. egyptians drank from blood to a roman naturalist, Pliny, report that human blood was a treatment for epilepsy. so its nothing that was not heard of in biblical times.

And how is a blood transfusion similar to drinking blood? Mind you, this question has already been beaten to death. So you may want to do your research first and come back prepared.

but why would Jehovah not allow us to take in something that could preserve our life? well because it was something special to him and he wanted it to be special for us and his followers respect that.

You really, really should try to read the book you claim to believe in.

i think that it is being looked at way to close and nit picking instead of accepting.

If I were a person who's never been in contact with Witnesses before, I would conclude from your statements that

* JWs do whatever their senile leaders tell them (even if it means to let their children die)
* in spite of claims to the contrary, they don't accept the bible as their primary authority ("that's just nitpicking")
* whenever someone takes the time to present actual argumentation, they simply ignore it and repeat their mantra again
* they make lots of spelling mistakes.

You're giving a very, very bad witness here.

f.

72

Adoption by Jehovah's Witnesses is blocked

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

adoption by jehovah's witnesses is blocked .

the independent - united kingdom; may 26, 2001. by brian farmer.

a couple originally approved by a council as adoptive parents have been refused permission by social workers to adopt a child, because they are jehovah's witnesses.

fodeja

but that still does not change the fact that Jehovahs asks his fatihful followers to abstain from blood

Hold it, hold it.

1) Who, exactly, told which persons, exactly, in which context, exactly, to abstain from blood?

2) Abstain from DOING what with blood? Touching it? Looking at it? Writing your name in the snow with it? Painting your windows with it? Eating it? Please give exact references.

and in modern day blood transfusions fall in that catagory

3) Who says that, exactly?
4) Does the person(s) have the authority to make such decisions in the name of God?

Please give exact references and write clearly. This is an open-book test, you can even ask your neighbour.

f.

72

Adoption by Jehovah's Witnesses is blocked

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

adoption by jehovah's witnesses is blocked .

the independent - united kingdom; may 26, 2001. by brian farmer.

a couple originally approved by a council as adoptive parents have been refused permission by social workers to adopt a child, because they are jehovah's witnesses.

fodeja

Even if my mother wasn't a JW's, I'd still be against blood trans
fusions. I'd take the fake blood anyday. When you see cases where
a person gets a blood transfusion and years later, they find out
they have some kind of disease and they've possibly passed it on to
their kids, no thanks.

Underlying assumption: "blood" therapies have risks, "non-blood" therapies do not.

The medical community does not have even remotely the same kind of long-term experience with what you call fake blood, that it has collected during decades of blood-based therapies. There may be serious risks involved with alternatives like HemoPure (which, as you may not know, is made from bovine blood), just like with any other therapy.

The JW "argument from health risk" is just plain idiotic. "We don't just refuse blood because Jehovah doesn't like it. We also refuse it because it's dangerous". Huh?

First, is it better to give up and die (risk of death = 100%) than to try a potentially life-saving therapy (risk of death < 100%)?!

Second, why don't JWs refuse antibiotics or any other medical treatment which has known side-effects, some of them very serious? If Jehovah is so concerned about health issues, why didn't he warn his faithful followers to avoid drugs like Contergan?!

Third, if you claim that blood therapies are dangerous, present facts. I want to see data, not rumours. No Afake! articles full of unattributed quotations by some doctor, torn out of context to twist the meaning. No stories told at the Kingdom hall. Not what Brother Y heard from Sister Z telling what her mother-in-law was told by her sister, who cleans the local veterinarian's windows for a living. If possible, add comparisons to alternative "bloodless" therapies. Give me full references to serious medical journals that I can look up at the University library. No gossip.

If you can't, it's probably better to stick to holy writ, revelations, personal communication with the Holy Spirit or whatever. Whenever JW writers try to fake their way through any sort of science, they fail miserably.

f.

7

UK pub rules?

by Moxy in

jw
friends

was at a gathering yesterday where i was told about a sister from here in canada who had visited the uk and asked to go to a 'pub' just to see an authentic english pub.

the brothers apparently were shocked at her suggestion since uk jws do not go to pubs.

it would be equivalent to a north american going to a niteclub.

fodeja

Yup, bang on! Her Ladyship enjoys a spritzer as an alternative to her normal Famouse grouse with ice.

And I used to think that drinking scotch with ice is a capital offence in Britain...?!

BTW, the canonical, Viennese form of Spritzer is, of course, "G'spritzter". Now let's hear you pronounce that :-)

f.

7

UK pub rules?

by Moxy in

jw
friends

was at a gathering yesterday where i was told about a sister from here in canada who had visited the uk and asked to go to a 'pub' just to see an authentic english pub.

the brothers apparently were shocked at her suggestion since uk jws do not go to pubs.

it would be equivalent to a north american going to a niteclub.

fodeja

Englishman,

is a "Spritzer" the same as it is in Austria: wine (usually white) plus soda water? I've never heard that word anywhere outside of Austria before, even less in England...

A point worth noting is that a British pub is nothing like a drinkers bar.

During my stays in the USA and Canada I've often missed the equivalent of a Pub or a Beisl/Wirtshaus (which is the Austrian/Southern German equivalent of the Pub, of course with slight differences). It's just not the same as a "bar", and definitely not a "restaurant" or a "club". Hmm...I sense a market niche there!

f., who loves cultural studies connected to drinking ;)