Posts by tenyearsafter

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

tenyearsafter

bttt

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

tenyearsafter

Nathan - I believe Christians would say that the Trinity is spirit, but would argue that Jesus the God-man was flesh during his time on earth. I think there is just one group that used to claim them to be residents of Alcyone in Pleiades, and we know who they are! LOL

Frankiespeakin - It always boils down to interpretation, doesn't it?...

TYA

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

tenyearsafter

Ynot - That is a very good question! The Holy Spirit also "in dwells" believers, so does that mean they are possessed by a "person". This is a very difficult subject to reconcile completely for me.

Matthew 1:18 could still imply a person, but begs the question you raise..."is Jesus the son of God the Father or God the Holy Spirit"?

Clear as mud, huh?

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

tenyearsafter

Yknot - Thanks you...that is a great reference! It is interesting that they never really answer the question of personage other than to say it isn't a part of the Godhead. I never really saw the "double speak" in the JW explanations when I was a JW. It sounds like another case of "it is so because I say it is", rather than an answer to the actual question.

Does anyone else have a supporting explanation of why Holy Spirit is not a "person"?

TYA

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

tenyearsafter

Cantleave - I tend to agree with you that God shouldn't or wouldn't make his character so difficult an issue to understand if it was crucial to our "knowing" him. I still believe in a creator and have probably struggled more with this question than most. I can see both sides of the coin, but am leaning towards the Trinitarian viewpoint until I can see a reason to buy the nontrinitarian view.

Glenstar - Thanks for the references. You have a some great information on your website! It will take me a while to read and digest what you have there, but I appreciate the work put into the compilation of the references.

I still haven't heard from the defenders of the nontrinitarian view. I am not looking to start an heated debate on the subject, but rather to hear an explanation of how to explain the scriptures originally mentioned at the beginning of the thread.

Thanks again!

TYA

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

tenyearsafter

Thanks JD and Wobble...I am sure that I am not alone with being "stuck" in my old JW thinking about the subject of the Trinity. I still have some issues with the actual Trinity doctrine, but I am starting to lean towards something more akin to the Trinity. It just is too difficult to "buy" the JW argument as to Jesus being an archangel and the Holy Spirit being an inanimate object that is more like electricity than anything else.

I know that the Trinity apologists see no other answer than the Trinity as defined by the early church fathers. I also know that many who are now atheist or agnostic would feel my question to be nonsense in the first place.

I would still like to hear from the nontrinitarians such as Joseph Malik, to get the opposing explanation to the personage or identity of the Holy Spirit. I know that the gender of the personal pronoun in John 14:26 can be argued that is mistranslated and should be neutral (it). I would like to hear how we can "grieve" something that is without personality or nothing more than an active force sent by God. Thanks all...

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

tenyearsafter

I am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but I would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the Holy Spirit and what it is in light of Ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the Holy Spirit". If the Holy spirit is just God's active force, as we were taught as JW's, how can we grieve it? Grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved". Also, John 14:26 specifically refers to Holy Spirit as "He". As I read that it would also indicate something more than an "active force".

How would you answer this? Thanks in advance for your comments!

69

Honestly, Do You Judge Someone Because Of Their Color Or Nationality?

by minimus in

jw
friends

one of the first baby dolls i gave my granddaughter was a cute little black baby doll.

she still has it in her car seat and if you try to take her doll from her she says, "my baby!!

" typically little children are color blind.

tenyearsafter

I am with Outlaw...Planet Idiot qualifies for my judgement list!!

I would never allow color or national origin be an excuse for stupidity!

3

Anyone on this board take Simvastatin?

by cantleave in

if so do you get a pain in your hands at the base of the thumb?

i have spoken a few user who have found this, just wondering how prevalent this is..

tenyearsafter

Took it for several years with no probs...now taking Crestor. Any statin drug can cause muscle weakness and pain...one of the side effects you should tell your Dr. about...I have never heard of localized thumb pain associated with statins.

30

ADAM GROWS OLD

by Titus in

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tenyearsafter

Hi Titus...and welcome!! I think you will find this a very interesting place to exchange ideas.

I know exactly why you don't bring this up to the elders...especially as a MS. If you did, I think you know that they would not view your question as an inquiry, but rather, at best, as a "doubt" and more likely a "divisive false teaching", and thus marking you as an apostate. I know where you are coming from...I was there and suppressed my questions for years. Unfortunately, those questions don't go away and you will eventually have to resolve them by either confronting them or repressing them to oblivion. I chose the former and my brother chose the latter. The bottom line is that there is no middle of the road choice if you are honest with yourself.

The whole issue of the creative day is one that is a source of discussion in many denominations. The liberal Christian denominations hold to an "old earth" theory and feel that the creative days don't represent a set time. The conservative Christian denominations believe in a "young earth", and feel that the creative days were a literal 24 hour period. The WTS has settled on something in the middle and formed the concept of the "creative day" of 7000 years. I guess my thought on this is, "what does it matter"? If a true Christian is focused on salvation issues, how does the length of the creation impact that? The real focus should be on what are "true" salvation issues, because when the "rubber meets the road", that will be all that matters to God.

Whatever direction your questions lead you, I wish you the best in your search...

TYA