Posts by Francois

12

New Heavens and New Earth

by NothingMan in

i've been taught as a j.w.

that the "new heavens" is made up of 144,000 annointed christians and the "new earth" are those that will inhabit the earth in a paradise.

i've noticed a sundry of differing minds on this site and i would appreciate any different takes on this scripture found at isaiah and 2 peter thanks still nothing.

Francois

The WTB&TS is nothing more than a pleasing fable resulting from the interpretation of a two thousand (or so) year old letter from an old man who didn't understand what he was writing as he wrote it.

There are literally hundreds of interpretations of this scripture, why should the JWs have gotten it right? They obviously couldn't get the time for the end of the world right, even though they've tried it at least a half-dozen times or more in the last hundred years.

Personally, I think you'd be much better served by intense consideration of Deut.: 18: 20-22, and by the JWs own advice to everyone but their own membership: What it is wise to examine your religion. Why should JW membership be exempt from the advise of their own organization?

Do not fear the false prophet.

8

Evolutionists having to fight for the theory.....

by Deacon in

jw
friends

evolutionists battle new theory on creation.

by james glanz.

salvatore c. dimarco jr. for the new york times .

Francois

Deacon, I for one would appreciate having a link to such windy, space wasting posts like that. Along with a warning that the article shouldn't be read if a person is about to drive a car or operate heavy machinery, since sleep is sure to be a consequence of reading such stuff.

Yep. God created everything. Evolution was his technique.

Thanks for supporting my position with your windy post.

JanH, I like your stuff. I really do. But not the elitism that quotes Occam's simplicity concept in latin. That's a bar to understanding, not a boost. Come on. Help out here.

Francoise

46

Tonight's memorial - did you go?

by dmouse in

jw
friends

my wife has just left for the memorial.. just before she went she asked me to come...this was the second year in a row that i declined.

i hated seeing her so sad, i almost agreed to go just to cheer her up but that would betray her in a very real sense.

to go to the memorial would be an admission in her eyes (and other jws) that i still believe deep down that it is the truth.

Francois

My Michelle, I posted a list of cult characteristics in StillinTruth's thread, and included a little bit of information about how JWs exhibit each and every one of those characteristics. It's hard to argue with the facts without displaying a gross insensitivity to the truth.

For dMouse and all you other folks who didn't go, you've got my support along with everyone else's. I haven't been to a memorial in over 25 years. Don't even think about it. But from time to time when I have my spiritual friends over, we will celebrate the remembrance ceremoney among ourselves. Since it's symbolic, we don't worry if the bread is leavened. Or the wine isn't kosher. We're not demonstrating our Hebrew-ness, we're demonstrating our remembering-ness.

And it feels just FINE.

34

Moving on

by Introspection in

jw
friends

i saw a recent post of someone leaving the board so they can move on.

it's been years for me and i actually have never come to a board like this until recently.

i'm just curious, how is everybody doing in that regard?

Francois

My perception is that newbies need a lot of support. It is unfortunately a common occurance that people inclined to become members of micro-minority elitist fundamentalist religions will leave one and get right back into another one as bad as the one they left. It's just human nature. These folks need a lot of support, or they're going to be back in some other frying pan somewhere.

Something else I've noticed is that many, if not a majority of the folks I see posting here, believe in some version of the concept that JWs constitute the one true religion, badly administered. And so through some unknown, un-named process posting bitter messages here is going to affect a change in the WTB&TS. It's not going to happen. And why is that?

As a religious organization becomes institutionalized, as have the JWs, its power for good is curtailed, while the possibilities for evil are greatly multiplied. Some of the dangers of organized religion are: fixation of beliefs and crystallization of sentiments; accumulation of vested interests with increase of secularization; tendency to standardize and fossilize truth; diversion of religion from the service of God to the service of the church; inclination of leaders to become administrators instead of ministers; tendency to form sects and competitive divisions; establishment of oppressive ecclesiastical authority; creation of the aristocratic "chosen-people" attitude; fostering of false and exaggerated ideas of sacredness; the routinizing of religion and the petrification of worship; tendency to venerate the past while ignoring present demands; failure to make up-to-date interpretations of religion; entanglement with functions of secular institutions; it creates the evil discrimination of religious castes like elders, ministerial servants, and ordinary publishers; it becomes an intolerant judge of orthodoxy; it fails to hold the interest of its young people and gradually loses the message of salvation for which it was brought into being in the first place.

Does this describe Jehovah's Witnesses? And it describes Mormons, Moonies, Catholics, Baptists, and you name it.

And yes, newbies on this site should be, in my opinion, helped to realize this and avoid getting back in something just as bad as what they left. And help, too, to realize that there is no chosen people. God loves all his children - even the erring ones.

That's enough from me.

5

Indignation over IBM

by Norm in

jw
friends

a person over at wol (retcon) is apparently very indignant about ibm supplying the nazis with equipment for the administration of some of the concentration camps in nazi germany.

this equipment was used to classify the prisoners in the camps, and he mention that the ibm equipment helped kill between 700,000 and 1,2 million people.

he is of course appalled at the "corporate greed" shown by ibm.. he is also totally ignorant about watchtower society history and has never given much thought to what happens if the good news hes spreading should ever happen.. it must be very disturbing for brooklyn, which has been a very good customer for ibm during the years.

Francois

Right on Norm.

The path that leads to righteousness may indeed be narrow, but it is wide enough to accomodate all who wish to walk there, JW or not.

The JWs hold that since you wouldn't place a "puppy dog's tail in the fire" that God wouldn't sponsor a place like hell.

Well, I wouldn't kill any of my children if they failed to behave just like I wanted them to either. So using the JWs own logic, there can't ever be an Armageddon.

Sigh! Trying to deal with a cult and its members is just like dealing with a big adult with severe mental illness.

No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of Jehovah's Witnesses

28

New one

by Ingrid in

jw
friends

hello i'm ingrid from sweeden.

i'm new ere.

is this a witnesses of jehowa site or an apostate site?.

Francois

Eeengrid, you great big walking sense of humor, I can tell you that non-English speakers do not write English with an accent.

But this board needs all the humor it can get. The organization of JWs isn't a funny topic and comic relief is always welcome.

24

"Upright" JW behaviour vs. "Worl...

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

i'm starting this thread because dedalus made such a good point in his post in the "what.

" thread.

i won't quote his whole post here, but here's the link:.

Francois

Drinking is one of the few "vices" allowed the witnesses and of course when alcohol is involved, sex is the city to which all roads lead. Since witnesses are "OK" with alcohol, they revel in it, wallow in it, soak in it, and use it to dull the pain of a dull existance.

Have you ever noticed that, generally speaking, most elders and before them congreation overseers, were all either educated and had money, or for some other reason had money...more than the average publisher? Amazing how that works, isn't it?

I was told, at the age of 18 and about to start college, that it would be foolish to go to college - what with armageddon coming any time now and all. I was told this by a congregation overseer who owned a real estate company and who was richer than three feet up a bull's ass.

"Be like buying up property and building a shopping center on it when you know there's a four-lane highway going to be built right through there. Be silly. A waste of time, wouldn't it now, son? You just forget about that college thing. Why, I'll give you a good job making plenty of money helping take care of my rental properties. You can do that 'till Armageddon gets here.

'Course I don't think it would be a good idea for you to marry my daughter right now, what with armageddon coming any time now and all. Bad idea to have children this side of the great tribulation.

Just forget about that college business. I can start you at minimum wage, since you don't have any experience. But you'll be making good money pretty soon. Just forget that college business."

All this was 38 years ago.

Oh, and some other things. I got my college degree. Two of 'em. And now I'm in the top 1% of income earners. And I left the JWs years ago. And the jerk's daughter has three children, and still peddles the WT door-to-door - more furiously than ever, what with armageddon coming any day now and all.

No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of Jehovah's Witnesses

23

If modern day JW could stone apostates would they?

by nojw86 in

jw
friends

via "new light" of course.

would they truly follow it as scriptual bashing of evil ones forsaking their god jehovah, all this old light changing into new light makes one go hmmm........regards nojw

Francois

Would they?

In a heartbeat.

No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of Jehovah's Witnesses

93

What did you do?

by StiLLinTruth in

jw
friends

to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.

come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.

the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?

Francois

Esmeralda, you've really got a point with your statement that the J-Dubs want everyone to be the same person. To them, the scripture that says "I will set them in unity like a flock in the pen" really means they will be in uniformity. There's a big, big difference between unity and uniformity. And even though it's a big difference, it's apparently too subtle a point for the geniuses at 124 Adams Street.

No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of Jehovah's Witnesses

78

Panties or Thongs, WHICH????????????

by JT in

jw
friends

i thought the name of this thread was so on time for this thread demostrates one of the sad things about claiming to speak for god, when one actually does not.. when i was a newly appointed elder at the tender age of 27 .

i was introduced to the world of the judical committee.. it was in fact my first case.

i had gotten a call from the po before the meeting stating that their would be an elders meetings to discuss some judical matters.

Francois

Someone here is SURPRISED about this story?

I was df'ed in 1972 and was reinstated a year later. Same story. The first meeting was held with the sister and I and three elders in the same room. The sister was only 18 years old, and she was a real looker. In fact, all these years later, she's still a very good looking woman.

The elders wanted the story in GREAT detail. Vastly more detail than was necessary to establish the facts. See, I'm one of those few folk that was in the borg who had a college education - with a degree in communications. In college I was a part of the debate team. And because we were being trained in how to persuade others to see things our way (part of a communications education) we were required to take quite a few courses in ethics.

Nothing that went on in that committee meeting was ethical.

I won't go into the gory detail like the original poster. Let's just say it was more of the exact same thing: leering men way past middle age, and one who had never been married and presumably had never been with a woman. These guy were engaged in mental masturbation. And when they got home, I'd be willing to bet they all whacked off. I know one of them had an erection during this investigation. I could see it. And I'm a guy, thus expert in these matters.

A few years before, I had lived with my CO uncle while in college. And I admit going through his congregation files and reading about the df case of a georgeous young woman in the congregation. Same stuff. Gory details. Many more than needed. But she and her fiance were personal friends of my uncle and they were shown mercy and not dfed. They got unannounced probation. And she claimed to have been "seduced" by her attorney boss NINE times. Right.

Later, when my aunt was away for a two week trip out of town, I discovered a huge chunk of fatback, streak meat, whatever you want to call it. wrapped in a towel, with a hole poked in it, under my CO uncle's bed.

And he was a drunk.

If these people, if this organization, is from God, I'm the Virgin Mary.

No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of Jehovah's Witnesses