Posts by Francois

205

HELLO? HELLO? "ALL" SIGN IN???????

by waiting in

simon did away with the sex forum - so i must take the tradional route and post under "make new friends.

" how mundane!.

fyi ---- for all of us, please take the time to write a sentence or two about yourselves, and encourage new ones to do the same.

Francois

Hello All:

I've only been around a week or so, but I'm fascinated by the apparent fact that active and ex- Jay Dubs can post here absent the threat of being censored by some kinda self-appointed, self-righteous, censor whose chief function is to render doilies for the mind.

I'm not French, I'm red-blooded southern. And I'm not an "ex" anything. I'm a writer by profession, and a seeker after spiritual truth by inclination. I was raised a JW, thus had little choice. Elsewhere I've said the straw that broke the camel's back was growing a beard, which led to all sorts of conflicts and questions to add to all the others I already had.

I had observed a lifetime of hypocrisy, double-dealing, back stabbing, lying, doctrinal inconsistencies and outright lying, deceit, and theological U-turning. And an incredible way of applying ancient prophecies (such as distribution of certain pamphlets being the "fire" that God caused to burn the heads of non-believers; JW officials going off to jail and then being released was in fulfillment of that business about the "two witnesses") to themselves. In short, what I saw was a dysfunctional, controlling cult affixing itself to the backs of people willing to lie down and be walked on. I knew I wasn't one of those and I bugged out.

That was a great day.

Nice to meetcha!

Francoise

22

What Was THE Straw That Broke Your "Camel'...

by Francois in

there are lots of outrageous things that have happened to each of us in our longer or shorter association with the jay-dubs.

but it's amazing sometimes what teeny things have been the final straw.. being raised as a jw, i swallowed most stuff whole my entire life.

then, as a teen began to question some things, but waited patiently for jehovah to straightened things out.

Francois

Hi Ridge:

I was "in" I suppose from as early as I can remember until I was in my early twenties. And that was with one foot in and one foot out. I was in college during the sixties for chrissake!! You think I was going to miss all that free love. Not on your life m'boy. Actually, a picture of it would be me with my big toe touching the water in the pool and the rest of me out. I maintained just to keep OK with my family. Then it got to be just too damn much and not worth it after the beard thing.

On my way out, I managed to get one of the meanest elders removed as an elder. And that was worth a whole lot of trouble later.

3

Tale of the Five Army Officers

by waiting in

with several threads going on about why god would let satan live, the discussion if logically god is right, etc., i remembered this fine thinking material originally copied from h20.. if nothing else - it puts into mental pictures our quandry of our mental understanding of god's understanding and actions towards us.. *********************************************************************.

the tale of the five officers (2000).

when ms. k. was slowly raped and murdered by a common thug over the.

Francois

So what's your point?

In addition, were there five realities in that scenario, or was there only one?

17

New Elders Handbook

by JEMIMAH in

jw
friends

hi everyone.. i have just got back to england after a four week sd course at brooklyn.

during the course we got a look at the manuscript of the new unnamed ks01 elders manual, this time instead of just 3 chapters covering jc's there will be 7 covering everything you can think of and more.

the book will be released to all serving travelling overseers and service deck personnel in aug 01 and all elders in dec01 at the kms .. as soon as i receive mine in aug i will download any relevant points.

Francois

Here's a request of the generic sort. Many of us were never elders or ministerial servants. Some of us don't understand the acronyms as a result. So if you post some inside information from the new "catch 'em, harrass 'em, kick 'em out" book, would you think about spelling out the acronym the first time you use it in a post, and then use the initials thereafter?

Hope you won't mind this suggestion.

Francoise

13

J-W.com gets "Cool Site" award

by JAVA in

way to go simon--jehovahs-witness.com was given the "cool site" award from netscape open directory!.

congrats to simon!.

--java...counting time at the coffee shop

Francois

Aaroooooooooogha! Dive! Dive! Dive!

And he did it without censoring one little word. Take that Rick and learn something about what openess and honesty can do for a guy.

8

Debate With The Governing Body

by Francois in

to my knowledge the governing body of the jws have not responded to my challenge to debate the proposition "jehovah's witnesses constitute a religious cult.".

i have said they wouldn't respond, and they won't.. for those of you who have a copy of "jehovah's witnesses in the divine purpose," let me suggest you read how the jws taunted mainstream religious leaders with their refusal to debate, claiming their refusal constituted tacit admission of the falsity of their religious practices and beliefs.. now the shoe is on the other foot.

and the governing body is hiding in the deepest precints of 114 adams street.

Francois

No doubt you're right. But I remember so clearly that book referenced in my original post in this threat. It waxes eloquently about how the mainstream religious clerics refused to come out and debate representatives of the WTB&TS, proving of course through their craven fear that they didn't have the truth, and that once again Jehovah prevailed through his organization. It was a real orgy of slapping their own backs.

Now the shoe is on the other foot. They've been publically challenged in no uncertain terms and their response is utter silence. I don't think they represent their god very well at all.

And they've never explained just exactly how they receive communication from God. Direct knowledge of the will of God, no matter the mechanism, is the very definition of mysticism - and we all know mysticism is of the devil; the JWs told us so.

So how do they know the will of god? Their own set of Urim & Thummin? Runes they picked up at Borders? Crystals? Do they face Beth Sarim and wave a dead chicken? Do they sit in a circle on the floor and hum Kumbaya in three languages? What? How do they know? And how could God make so many mistakes? And change his mind so many times on the same topic? And engage in outright lying and deception?

The WTB&TS constitutes false religion, it's a false prophet and a cult. And above all it's cowardly. And their refusal to debate is proof positive.

11

Hey Simon, how about all the NEW ones, eh!

by Martini in

jw
friends

wow it's great to have so many fresh x'ers or x'ers soon to be visiting and posting here, welcome!

i was a regular poster here from the start of this board while witnesses.net and the original h20 were still active.

i say this not to boast in any way but to make a point and an observation.

Francois

Martini and All:

Good post that, and accurate too.

I'd like to point out that many new people come here who are just getting that first dawning realization that all is not well with God's channel of communication. The attitude seems to be that the JWs have the "truth" but deal with it poorly. That's as good a place to start as any.

From such small beginnings, more and more accurate assesments begin to pile us as minds clear and thinking becomes more free and spontaneous.

It is beautiful to watch a mind throw off the shackles of cultic stultification. And to you folks involved in the process - congratulations. It's so much easier not to get involved in freeing yourself from the Borg. But you'll have a vastly better life.

Salute!

Francoise

22

What Was THE Straw That Broke Your "Camel'...

by Francois in

there are lots of outrageous things that have happened to each of us in our longer or shorter association with the jay-dubs.

but it's amazing sometimes what teeny things have been the final straw.. being raised as a jw, i swallowed most stuff whole my entire life.

then, as a teen began to question some things, but waited patiently for jehovah to straightened things out.

Francois

Hello Ridgerunner and all: Yep, you could call 'em aboutfaces, flip-flops, whatever. I like callin' 'em what they are without rhetorical varnish: lies!

And as for fads, well. I notice that it's OK to follow a dead fad, yesterday's fad, you just can't follow a current fad. When pale blue dress shirts were just coming in, it was OK to wear white ones, but not blue ones. After awhile, it was OK to wear the blue ones, but not the white ones with the blue collar. And on, and on, and on....

And of course you can immediately see the full-blown spiritual impact of this heart-stopping debate. The issue here was really all about whether or not you were willing to let them pull your strings, not about what you were wearing. It was about allowing them to control you, just as control is the central issue in ALL dysfunctional relationships.

As noted elsewhere: You can't be walked on unless you lie down first.

22

What Was THE Straw That Broke Your "Camel'...

by Francois in

there are lots of outrageous things that have happened to each of us in our longer or shorter association with the jay-dubs.

but it's amazing sometimes what teeny things have been the final straw.. being raised as a jw, i swallowed most stuff whole my entire life.

then, as a teen began to question some things, but waited patiently for jehovah to straightened things out.

Francois

There are lots of outrageous things that have happened to each of us in our longer or shorter association with the Jay-Dubs. But it's amazing sometimes what teeny things have been the final straw.

Being raised as a JW, I swallowed most stuff whole my entire life. Then, as a teen began to question some things, but waited patiently for Jehovah to straightened things out. I listened to grand debates about sisters wearing pants suits or not, brothers wearing wide ties, narrow ties, bow ties, or anyone wearing steel rim glasses, or rimless glasses, or bell-bottem pants, boots instead of shoes, and other spiritually vital absurdities.

Went off to college (how 'bout that!), and after graduation decided to grow a beard. Had always wanted one, so I did it. I was so naive, I wasn't aware there would be a problem. Well.

I had my platform privileges revoked.

"Why?" I wanted to know. "What is the scriptural basis of this action where you attempt to override my conscience with your platform regulations?"

"This restriction is organizational," they said, "not scriptural."

"Organizational? What scripture allows you the authority to override my conscience in this matter with your platform requirements?"

Couldn't come up with an answer to that one. So I began to question more and more things. And when pressed for answers, the elders could come up with no scriptural basis for what they were doing. But with a straight face claimed they had the right to replace my conscience with their conscience. Not so fast, I said, this kind of passive acceptance of the violation of my conscience is exactly what you give rank and file Catholics all that hell for, asking them how come they don't tell the priests to go pound sand.

"We're different," they said, "we speak for Jehovah."

"Right," I said, "and I'm the virgin mary. Be seein' ya."

They sneaked around, peekin' in my windows for three years after I stopped going to the Kingdom Hall, and finally someone saw me smoking and I got a ride on the "ship." Doesn't that just take the cake? What incredible small-mindedness. It was exactly like being fired three years after you quit your job.

But there it is: the straw that broke the camel's back for me. The wholly innocent desire to grow a beard. Oh, by the way, two of the elders who came to my house to conduct their little inquisition had moustaches, and one of them was drunker than a priest, and one of the ones with the moustache had a cleaning business and as a part of that had an electric meter he used to steal electricity with when he showed up at an apartment to clean where there was no electricity. How 'bout them apples?

What's your straw??????

Best,

Francoise

8

Debate With The Governing Body

by Francois in

to my knowledge the governing body of the jws have not responded to my challenge to debate the proposition "jehovah's witnesses constitute a religious cult.".

i have said they wouldn't respond, and they won't.. for those of you who have a copy of "jehovah's witnesses in the divine purpose," let me suggest you read how the jws taunted mainstream religious leaders with their refusal to debate, claiming their refusal constituted tacit admission of the falsity of their religious practices and beliefs.. now the shoe is on the other foot.

and the governing body is hiding in the deepest precints of 114 adams street.

Francois

To my knowledge the governing body of the JWS have not responded to my challenge to debate the proposition "Jehovah's Witnesses Constitute a Religious Cult."

I have said they wouldn't respond, and they won't.

For those of you who have a copy of "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose," let me suggest you read how the JWs taunted mainstream religious leaders with their refusal to debate, claiming their refusal constituted tacit admission of the falsity of their religious practices and beliefs.

Now the shoe is on the other foot. And the governing body is hiding in the deepest precints of 114 Adams Street. Rattling their urim and thummin, no doubt, divining the will of their tribal god.

Embarrassing to be hoisted on your own petard, ain't it boys?

Francoise