Francois

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Posts by Francois

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  5

  Jesus Born of a Virgin?

  by patio34 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an excerpt from 'middle eastern mythology' by s. h. hooke regarding the viriginity and reasons thereof for mary:.

  "the third tendency at work in the matthaean birth narrative raises the larger question of the borrowing of mythological material from pagan sources.

  we have already seen that, in describing the divine activity in creation the hebrew writers made use of sumerian and babylonian creation myths .

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  Francois

  In many religions of middle eastern and far eastern variety there are tales of god coming to mingle with men and invariably they are born of virgins. Christianity is not unique in these claims.

  Frankly, since the personality is separate from the body, it is perfectly acceptable to posit that Jesus' body came about in the normal fashion, and that this fleshly vehicle was then imbued with the personality that was his before his incarnation on this planet.

  And the virgin birth isn't the only hoary story in Christianity. There's the atonement doctrine. What an affront to diety to charge that His tender and compassionate love and forgiveness for his suffering children was not forthcoming until he saw his wholly blameless son bleeding and dying upon the cross of calvary.

  And the illicit idea of original sin. Utter poppycock. Total bullshit. Fostered and conserved and preserved by the churches of christianity in order that it has a club with which to belabor its membership. God is supposed to be higher than we, and we would never presume to visit the sins of the father upon the children. Twaddle. Total twaddle.

  Transubstantiation. Doesn't even merit a rebuttle.

  The Immaculate Conception of Mary. Harrumph. The very term "immaculate" implying that there's something dirty about the act of procreation. It's an ability we share with God, after all.

  However, it's pointless to argue logic with people who hold an emotionally based opinion.

  Francoise
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  29

  wasted in arguments

  by hippikon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think a lot of space is wasted in arguments that get personal.

  we are a varied bunch and i think that variety is good.

  i dont want to discourage anyone from posting but personal attacks ( justified or not) dont achieve anything.

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  Francois

  Julie, your ego is showing.
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  29

  wasted in arguments

  by hippikon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think a lot of space is wasted in arguments that get personal.

  we are a varied bunch and i think that variety is good.

  i dont want to discourage anyone from posting but personal attacks ( justified or not) dont achieve anything.

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  Francois

  Hippikon's arguments are right as far as they go, they just don't go far enough.

  They don't go far enough because the WTB&TS is destroying people's lives...literally. And in many cases is killing people who don't have to die. People in Malawi, people who need blood transfusions, or innocualtions (historically), or organ transplants, etc. It also destroys families, and ruins relationships of all kinds.

  Society has a right to protect itself from those who would prey on it. All sorts of individuals and organizations who prey on people are illegal and are not tolerated in civilized society: numbers runners, bunko artists, drug dealers, murderers, con men & grifters of all sort, arsonists, robbers, forgers, and on and on and on. Society doesn't just tolerat these types because they are "different." These people are different alright, but they are different in a way that damages others. And they have no right to do so. And there are severe penalties for engaging in these behaviors.

  The WTB&TS is in the same category as the other criminals listed above. Just because it hides behind the first amendment, doesn't mean it's really a religion. You all know it isn't. It's a combination cult, publishing and real estate empire. And it's dangerous, dangerous to the society which tolerates its loathsome presence in its midst. If we don't call attention to this danger then we are a part of the problem. The Society should be ripped from society root and branch and destroyed. Sooner rather than later. We can wait till it falls of its own weight or we can help it.;
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  18

  Doubletalk

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some times the inconstancies and contradictions in the watchtower literature seems almost unbelievable.

  the double standard of the watchtower writers seems to be without limit.. one of the explanations for this is that some watchtower articles deals with how jehovah's witnesses want to be perceived and how they want to be treated by society in general, and the contradictory articles deals with how the faithful and loyal witnesses should regard their enemies and outsiders.

  in psalm 139 this is spoken of as a complete hatred.

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  Francois

  As noted previously, people who join cults of any type conform to a well-known personality profile as is exhaustively described in Eric Hoffer's seminal work, "The True Believer." The cults themselves are always of a predictable, defineable set of characteristics. One of these characteristics is the element that provide unity, that provide the "sticking power" that holds the cult together and gives a sense of belonging and community. One of the most powerful of these unifying elements is the development of a common enemy, along with an intense hatred for that enemy.

  For the Nazis, the common enemy was the Jews. When visiting Germany in WWII, the Japanese congratulated Hitler on his use of the Jew as the common enemy. "Yes," Hitler said, "If the Jew didn't exist, we'd have to invent him." And it was necessary to develop a virulent hatred for the common enemy. The fires of hatred for the Jew were deliberately fanned by German propagandists, as is well known.

  In today's world, the liberal left, in its religious practice of its utopian vision of society, uses anyone of economic means as the enemy. And it can hardly be denied that the left hates and fans the flames of intolerance and hatred for all who disagree with its precepts. And like Nazis, it is perfectly permissible to hate the enemy, the rich, and to confiscate their property and their lives.

  And, just like its modern-day spiritual counterpart the JWs, the German Reich was to last a "thousand years," as is the expectation of liberal democrats for its coming Utopia - funded by confiscation of the property of the hated rich.

  So today's JWs follow the blueprint developed for their use by their spiritual progenitors - the German Nazi Reich. And the unifying element for JWs today is the hated apostate. Cults cannot survive absent this unifying element, this unreasoning hatred. But, just like their political counterpart, the WTB&TS will ultimately fail due to the weight and destructive, corrosive effect of its hatreds.

  And we will seek to find them, but when we look in their place, they will not be found, for God destroyed them.

  Francoise
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  12

  Getting married....any advise?

  by Uni girl in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm getting married in a few weeks to the man that was disfellowshipped with me for 'committing adultery in our hearts".

  we have been together for 5 years and have a wonderful and warm relationship, no fear or guilt.

  the only blimp on the horizon is his family, some of whom are maniacs when it comes to the letter of the law.

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  Francois

  "Committing adultery in your hearts"?????

  whatinhellisthat?

  Just when I think I've heard the stupidest thing I could possibly hear, along comes something like this.

  There is apparently no moral swamp too low for the JWs who will apparently wallow in anything.

  Francoise
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  17

  WT using Satan`s courts again

  by JWD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has.

  toward satan`s world.while condemning it on the one hand,they seem to.

  have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.. let me pass along two recent court cases here in japan.

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  Francois

  The Society's "strict political neutrality" is nothing more than the society blowing smoke up its own pants.

  Strict political neutrality is itself a political position. Remember the mathematical concept zero? In itself it seems to have no value. Examined further, it is found to give meaning and value to the entire system of mathematics. Many branches of mathematics would be impossible without zero, and you couldn't count beyond nine without it.

  Strict political neutrality - even if those lying bastards on Adams Street really practiced it - is nothing more than a delusion used to tickle the ears of the faithful.

  Francoise
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  19

  JWs and Alcohol Abuse/Addition/Escapism

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i first started studying in 84 at the ripe ol age of 29, i was told oft and repeatedly that jws did everything in moderation, and nothing sinful or unbiblical.

  apparently, like everything else, they have added footnotes to the scriptures that say not to get drunk, as that seems to be their only "legitimate" (read, unregulated) escape from the reality that is the witchtrowel babble and trash sectciety.. there was one elder in my first congregation that reeked of alcohol even first thing in the morning at field service.

  i was told by someone "born in the truth" that he had a "body chemistry problem, whereby when he would sweat it would smell like alcohol, and he did sweat profusely...hence the reddenned face.

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  Francois

  Ah, Jehovah's Witnesses, those wild and crazy, fun-loving guys.

  The three elders who came to meet with me to "adjust" my thinking, none of whom had an IQ any higher than room temperature, were these: 1) Brother "A" who was drunk on arrival; 2) Brother "B" who had a cleaning business complete with an illegal power meter he used every day to steal electricity from the power company; and Brother "C" who was a combination of A and B, had his own power meter also, and who was a known, um, tippler. He hadn't tippled that day, but was hung over - it being a Saturday morning.

  An organization characterized by hypocrisy and lying, uuuuum, gimme some of that.
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  17

  WT using Satan`s courts again

  by JWD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i never cease to be amazed at the blatant double standard the org.has.

  toward satan`s world.while condemning it on the one hand,they seem to.

  have no reservations about using it fully when it seems advantagous.. let me pass along two recent court cases here in japan.

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  Francois

  The only recorded instance of Jesus becoming angry was in the temple at the hypocrisy of the money changers. I take it then that hypocrisy holds a particular place of scorn on the part of Jesus and by extension God.

  Kismet, your cavalier acceptance, and even justification, of the cynical, sneering hypocrisy of the WTB&TS is typical of what Jesus refered to as straining out the gnat while gulping down the camel. And it's typical, too, of organizational co-dependant denial. Like the spineless wife who says that she deserved to be slapped by her abusive husband and that he did it because he loved her, you are apparently ready to defend the WTB&TS in its century-long history of institutionalized abuse.

  People can be restrained, even instutionalized, if they are found to be a danger to themselves or others. This woman in Japan was manifestly a danger to herself, and to any one else she could control. As such the pastor was right.

  And you are wrong.
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  3

  Sex In The Sect - Vicky J.

  by unclebruce in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at all costs vicki's mother wanted to hold onto the myth of a man with sober habits with one wife and obedient children.

  ..... it seemed pointless to direct her attention to what was going on under her very nose.

  dad hid copious quantities of cheap wine in containers scattered throughout garden sheds, under car seats, in long grass behind the out door dunny or anywhere that presented itself.

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  Francois

  Right you are UncleBruce:

  And I suspect that's the way it's done in many congregations in Australia even today. And in every other congregation in every other country as well. The JWs seem always to be made up of alcoholic sexaholic sexaphobics the world over.

  It's Eric Hoffer all over again, what?

  Francoise
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  16

  Commentaries perrleez.

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  below is a paragraph from march 1st, 2001 watchtower.

  as has been well said by homer simpson, "it works on so many levels.

  " comments anybody?.

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  Francois

  "Have to do with..."??

  What the hell does that mean? That's not what I'd call a really clear definition of relationship. "Have to do with..."?? That could mean anything.

  Y'know, I've been around the witnesses since way back in the mid-fifties, and if I've heard once about how rapidly we're approaching the big enchillada - where the God of Universes is going to swoop down and murder off 99.9998% of his erring, but ignorant, children on this planet because they don't hold with the bullshit of the Jay-Dubs, I've heard it a zillion billion times. These people are masters at constantly finding new people who've never heard them cry wolf.

  Obey? They want obedience?

  Note to JWs: Turn with me to Deut. 18:20-22, and read along as I describe false prophet. Obey? You people can get a 100 yard head start and take a flying leap right up my ass.

  Obey?

  Right.