Posts by quietlyleaving

99

Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

by Terry in

jw
friends

i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

sound weird?.

counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

quietlyleaving

Terry in your opening post I was enjoying what you'd written until you got to this

IF you will yourself into destroying your only access to reality. You KILL your rational mind.

Your rational mind demands that no contradiction exists between the real world and your thoughts. Everything must match!

When the rational (non-contradictory) mind is abandoned---what remains?

This leaves you with a superstitious mind. The superstitious mind embraces contradictions and will cling to any BELIEF which

produces a feeling of wonder, awe, comfort or excitement.

Some people call the superstitious mind SPIRITUALITY because it sounds more reverent!

imo the rational mind is only a small "part of a part". Goethe in Faust. Whereas what you call the "superstitious mind" which you describe as producing awe, wonder, comfort, excitement and which you downgrade, is imo what imparts value to life and it does not need the "rational mind" to impart rationality as it can discriminate for itself (assuming of course that what you call the superstitious mind can even be categorised at all).

There is emotional intelligence, aesthetic appreciation, a welcoming of the unknown etc etc. Much of this isn't even located in the mind but in the body.

As Jehovahs witnesses we sat still at the meetings like little soldeirs focusing the mind on "spiritual food". I would suggest switching between mind and body at the meetings. If you feel bored go for a walk savour the air outside, the sunshine, the night air, spend a little time in your body

Faith imparts life. How you define faith is up to you. Many people of faith - the apostle Paul included - demonstrated belief in God as well as a questioning of belief in God- faith has many sides to it. It can be a bottomless pit too with no sides - Jesus in the garden of gethsemene for instance

15

How did the Bible become the "HOLY" bible?

by Terry in

no tv.. no radio.. no internet.. no daily newspaper.. how did a pre-technology world get information?.

word-of-mouth.. rumor.. visiting strangers.. commerce.. the stories of jesus were oral urban legends that probably began this way:.

"hey did you hear about that rabbi in jerusalem who could walk on top of water?".

quietlyleaving

It enables peole to have an inner life and be self aware

(Christianity makes you aware you are worthless, a sinner, deserve death and are born with codemnation. It makes you a loser from birth.)

Terry

I agree but on the other hand the bible does enable an inner life at the same time

Byron would agree with me

To fly from, need not be to hate, mankind.

All are not fit with them to stir and toil,

Nor is it discontent to keep the mind

Deep in its fountain, lest it overboil

In the hot throng.

Childe Harold's pilgrimmage

15

How did the Bible become the "HOLY" bible?

by Terry in

no tv.. no radio.. no internet.. no daily newspaper.. how did a pre-technology world get information?.

word-of-mouth.. rumor.. visiting strangers.. commerce.. the stories of jesus were oral urban legends that probably began this way:.

"hey did you hear about that rabbi in jerusalem who could walk on top of water?".

quietlyleaving

A similar phenomenon occurs with LANGUAGE itself. A work of literature comes along of such great magnitude and reverence that language freezes around it.

For the French it was Victor Hugo's Les Miserables.

For the Spanish it was Don Quixote.

For the English it was Shakespeare and his influece on the King James version.

Terry

you have only shared your opinion and this is what I have done (your rhetoric v mine - we could go several pages). You need to provide an argument if you want to be taken seriously. Why do you say language freezes around a great work of literature? I rather think it is the other way round - a great work like the bible for example seeds culture and art imo. Michelangelo's work, da Vicinci's work. Milton and Shakespeare. Closer to our time - Darwin, Karen Armstrong etc

I'll be back tomorrow to reply

15

How did the Bible become the "HOLY" bible?

by Terry in

no tv.. no radio.. no internet.. no daily newspaper.. how did a pre-technology world get information?.

word-of-mouth.. rumor.. visiting strangers.. commerce.. the stories of jesus were oral urban legends that probably began this way:.

"hey did you hear about that rabbi in jerusalem who could walk on top of water?".

quietlyleaving

How did the Bible become the "Holy" bible?

it has transformative power

God says it is holy

humans say it is holy

The bible is very philosophical and this long before philosopy was even a subject

It is emotionally satisfying and fulfilling for many people

It enables people to hope against hope, to have courage, to have faith

It enables peole to have an inner life and be self aware

need I go on (now where did I put those golves)

38

UK Newspaper articles. Young JW death re 'no blood'

by ThomasCovenant in

.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1279252/jehovahs-witness-15-dies-refusing-blood-following-crash.html.

quietlyleaving

very sad.

especially as a JW hospital liason officer may have been able to negotiate a compromise which may have saved the boy's life. JWs really need to make their rules concerning blood understandable so that there may be more hope of survival in such emergency cases where time is crucial.

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

quietlyleaving

notverylikely

Some of the stories are just for that. However, the "bible" is a collection of stories that supported the agenda of the early catholic church and should be treated exactly like that.

I think you are quite right. But I think the Catholic church played both a passive and an active role in this process (and this is true of most religions imo). The process I'm talking about is wherein humans want a leader. And the bible often alludes to this as bad thing (for example when people wanted a king in Samuels day). An authority structure develops. The structure then invests itself with infallibilty and they actively use the bible to support their postion.

Imo the bible has a passive role in this king making process because it repeatedly says that human authority that seeks to be total is outside of mans jurisdiction.

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

quietlyleaving

endofmysteries

I remember that story from Wt 77. Virtually a fairy tale to keep one coming back for more -

makes sense why we willingly handed over authority to the WTS.

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

quietlyleaving

Personally, I think some parts of the Bible are there to make us think about the questions, not to provide the answers.

I so agree with this statement from JeffT

Another point is that I'm pretty certain Jehovahs witnesses aim for a literal understanding of the Bible - in fact they brought out their own bible because they wanted to provide a more literal understanding. Many of the parables are taken to have a literal meaning/fulifillment (the parable of the faithful and discreet slave class for example).

However humans beings are not basically literally minded, and I'm certain that along with the FDS inspired literal interpretations, ordinary JWs do take on board that the readings from the bible have a moral message, an edifying message, a challenging message, an obscure message that talks to one's heart etc etc.

45

Honest Question..........

by thraxer68 in

well, first off, iam new to the forum here, i registered maybe a week ago???

sometime around there, but anyway, i do have an honest question.

i guess a little background about me might be helpful and if not, at least therapeutic.

quietlyleaving

Its like I've run into differnt things that all contribute to my faith

awesome thraxer68

31

Help! Hold Me Back From Voicing My Opinions And Getting Shunned!

by nextdoorgirl in

i am new to this board after lurking for awhile (thanks so much for creating this place simon, and for everyone's shared thoughts!).

i am going crazy because i have recently allowed myself to begin thinking (and it is so fun!

) and i am an outspoken person, and it is very hard for me to keep my opinions and discoveries about this place under my hat!

quietlyleaving

girlnextdoor

hi and welcome

Keep at holding back on voicing your opinions.

Doctrines are of secondary importance amongst many JWs imo. Many are there because

" their simple souls fear the hard ways of the world and the struggle for bread more than the loneliness of the sad Watchtower"

(by simple I mean innocent and without guile as many are poets at heart and have taken refuge within the WTS)

And these ones are prepared to fight for their castle. Best not to get into an argument with them.

hope this helps

ql

edit; focus on yourself, read Steve's books etc. Many many come to sites like these but choose to stay.