Posts by caliber

38

Conversation I had with Elder, "It's Ok To Lie If they don't deserve the truth!" Who created this dogma?

by AuntConnie in

what is the origin of "theocratic warfare" and jehovah's witnesses being able to freely life if they feel it's for the "greater good" of the watchtower?

i asked the elder if jesus christ ever lied, he said "yes, jesus refused to answer questions from people!

" can you show me where this is in the bible?

caliber

f you look up lie or falsehood in the insight books..it tells you the truth should only be told to those who are deserving of it...or something

someone with access to this could probably scan/post it

Aid to Bible Understanding Book (Published in 1971), Pages 1060-1061:Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth[...] While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

When was "Theocratic Warfare" first mentioned in the Watchtower publications?

first known as the "Rahab maneuver"

Riches Book (Published in 1936), Page 177:"A lie is a false statement made by one to another one who is entitled to hear and to know the truth

38

Conversation I had with Elder, "It's Ok To Lie If they don't deserve the truth!" Who created this dogma?

by AuntConnie in

what is the origin of "theocratic warfare" and jehovah's witnesses being able to freely life if they feel it's for the "greater good" of the watchtower?

i asked the elder if jesus christ ever lied, he said "yes, jesus refused to answer questions from people!

" can you show me where this is in the bible?

caliber

Telling "the whole truth" means you don't leave out details in order to conceal some of the facts.

"Nothing but the truth" means you don't say something that is truthful but then add in details that are not truthful.

You see, secular courts understand that fudging the truth in any manner is not acceptable.

Same as this Bible principle..

Deuteronomy 4:2

You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you

The "Theocratic Warfare" doctrine does allow the witness to omit things under a rather vague case where the witness decides the person doesn't "deserve" or it is not in their "best interests" to know. This is different secular law in this regard

28

Apostles were first governing body????

by NeverKnew in

and paul was not a part of the governing body????

am i hearing this correctly or are these people making things up?.

caliber

HEBREWS 13:7-8 REMEMBER YOUR LEADERS, WHO SPOKE THE WORD OF GOD TO YOU. CONSIDER THE OUTCOME OF THEIR WAY OF LIFE AND IMITATE THEIR FAITH.
Some commentators say verse seven refers to leaders of the past because the outcome of their life can be seen. But others say it refers to those of the past and present leaders, but those who are older and whose life shows years of faithfulness to God.
"spoke the word" sounds more personal ...nevertheless it was " their faith "that was to be imitated

The most current new light says there was no feeding program until our day starting 1914-1919 ( only then did the FDS appear )

Does this mean that we today are favoured with spiritual food and those after 33 C E -70 C E received none ? 1800 plus years ?

Did the those after 33 recieve no spiritual comfort or strength from God at all ?

Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Jesus says with with always not in the time of the end but to the time of the end

28

Apostles were first governing body????

by NeverKnew in

and paul was not a part of the governing body????

am i hearing this correctly or are these people making things up?.

caliber

Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among YOU and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over YOUR souls as those who will render an account... Hebrews 13:17

The questions remains who were the ones taking the lead among you ?

Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God’ (1John 4:1)

The Bible Students are autonomous. Meaning they are self-governing. The ecclesia [congregation] itself elects it's own officers [i.e. elders, deacons, etc.] and committees [i.e. witness, comfort, convention] to help the class run as smoothly as possible. There are no paid clergy and no collections are taken during the meetings.

This Society was an organizer of Bible Student conventions and other activities, but it did not dictate any creeds or rules to the independent congregations.

Russell's faithful followers were united in hatred for the Roman Catholic church and its central authority and organization. Previously, as Adventists, they had railed against the RC church as "the whore of Babylon

By 1930, Many Bible Students abandoned the Society, and by 1931, the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" was adopted by the new leadership to differentiate between the Society's Bible Students and those independent of the Society

The main articles in The Watch Tower for August 15 and September 1, 1932 were a turning point

In 1932, did away with the local, elected elders.
The elders were for a time replaced by a "special service committee"still elected locally, but in 1938 this arrangement was also replaced by one in which the leadership were centrally appointed.

" Feeding many through the hands of a few" verses "autonomous self-governing ecclesia "

1Corinthians 3:9. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it.

28

Apostles were first governing body????

by NeverKnew in

and paul was not a part of the governing body????

am i hearing this correctly or are these people making things up?.

caliber

In Rev 2 also, 7 AUTOMOUS congregations reporting to Jesus directly~~prologos

Corinthians 3:9. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

10 According to the grace of Godwhich was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it.

11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

28

Apostles were first governing body????

by NeverKnew in

and paul was not a part of the governing body????

am i hearing this correctly or are these people making things up?.

caliber

Acts 15:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Acts 15:12

New International Version (NIV)

12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.

these verses reveal two things... (1)it was the apostles and elders who came together for this one matter... were not sitting as a perminent body

(2) rather than recieve instruction from a would be GB the assembly became silent and listened to Barnabus & Paul about what wonders & signs God

was revealing to these two directed ," inspired "apostles

Paul makes several things clear - he was divinely directed to go up to Jerusalem to enlighten those "pillars" that circumcision was not required for Christians,~~ Searcher makes the same point... I simply added the scriptures from Acts 15

If there is one exclusive channel for expressed truth what of these verses ?

Mark 9:38. John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to hinder him because he was not following us."

39 But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who shall perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.

40 For he who is not against us is for us.

Here we see that John was talking to Jesus about a man that they met and who was casting out demons in Jesus’ name. The disciples tried to stop him because he was not one of the Twelve. But for Jesus, that was not a good reason. He told them that they shouldn’t have prevented him from casting out demons. Do not hinder him, for there is no one who shall perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. Jesus’ reply shows that His view of who could legitimately participate in His mission was not as restrictive as that of the disciples. There is a lesson here for the followers of Christ. We should not limit the grace of God to a specific congregation or a specific denomination.

327

How do believers defend a god who is going to murder billions and pin it on them?

by tootired2care in

at that time those slain by the lord will be everywherefrom one end of the earth to the other.

they will not be mourned or gathered up or buried, but will be like dung lying on the ground.

- jerimiah 25:33.

caliber

Is this speaking of God or is it ...an ad-hominem attack on Christians ?

How does it relate to the topic of God ?

327

How do believers defend a god who is going to murder billions and pin it on them?

by tootired2care in

at that time those slain by the lord will be everywherefrom one end of the earth to the other.

they will not be mourned or gathered up or buried, but will be like dung lying on the ground.

- jerimiah 25:33.

caliber

So indeed it isn't exactly anger towards God but contempt !! I meant to imply contempt towards God , believers or even the concept of God)

What is the dominant emotion that dominates your thinking when of the concept of God is mentioned ?

Without splitting hairs I think people get the idea clearly from my above question.. but I think I get it...

you want no connection whatsoever implied or otherwise to the the thought or idea that God exists .

wasn't directed against God (which would be impossible to do, since remember: I'm an atheist, and don't believe in God?), but towards those who perpetuate the belief in Gods~~ Adamah

Feeling contempt for believers is your right but how comfortable will believers feel if you express

in words to them those feelings of contempt ? Is there a more palatable method ?

Synonyms
, disdain , scorn imply strong feelings of disapproval and aversion toward

contempt facial expression

327

How do believers defend a god who is going to murder billions and pin it on them?

by tootired2care in

at that time those slain by the lord will be everywherefrom one end of the earth to the other.

they will not be mourned or gathered up or buried, but will be like dung lying on the ground.

- jerimiah 25:33.

caliber

I learnt a lessson from Adamahabout these two words“Dominant” and “dominate” sound somewhat alike, but they can’t be used interchangeably

Dominant” is an adjective, meaning it is used to describe a subject. It is defined as having or exerting authority or influence, or occupying or being in a commanding or elevated position

Dominate” is a verb. It means to rule over, have control of, tower over or overshadow

examples that helped me understand the difference between this verb and adjective....

Wheat is the dominant crop in many parts of North Dakota.” “Which is the dominant gene?”
How to dominate a dominant women

Caliber, read my last response VERY CAREFULLY, as I already answered your question, and stated it in a clear unambiguous manner. I even added your phrase "dominant emotion" (which is actually spelled "dominant", not "dominate")
PULEEZE, not the argument that's only one-step removed from the popular Top 40 fave of theists: "You Atheists are ANGRY with God and you don't WANT him to exist, so you can deny His existence and SIN!"?

Ok you're not angry with God .... so tell me then what is the dominate emotion the flows in you when you think of the concept of god ? ~~ Cal

The following sentence would have been the proper use of these words...

What is the dominant emotion that dominates your thinking when of the concept of God is mentioned ?

Adamah has already answered this question to my satisfaction .... Contempt was his answer

Contempt is a secondary emotion (not among the original six emotions as classified by Paul Ekman, namely: anger, disgust, fear, happiness, sadness and surprise) and is a mix of the primary emotions disgust and anger. [ 1 ] The word originated in 1393, from the Latin word contemptus meaning "scorn." It is the past participle of contemnere and from com- intens. prefix + temnere "to slight, scorn." The origin is uncertain. Contemptuous appeared in 1529. [ 2 ]

Robert C. Solomon places contempt on the same continuum as resentment and anger, and he argues that the differences between the three is that resentment is directed toward a higher status individual; anger is directed toward an equal status individual; and contempt is directed toward a lower status individual. [3]

So indeed it isn't exactly anger towards God but contempt !!

50

Gorby's father collapses at home after new light watchtower study

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

friends,.

sunday my father, a strong believing witness, former elder and still a ms, collapses at home after the new light watchtower study.. the cause was extreme stress.

i asked him about his worries.

caliber

I am please to see that most everyone who has commented here , at least feels a measure of compassion

and pity for your father. This is so much more postive and upbuilding rather than some form of gloating,

spite or contempt

The fullest and best ears of corn are those that hang lowest to the ground

Hope all works out between you and for you both

Love is a beautiful song.... in fact it is is the only song if you wish to find happiness and share such with others

millions of people all over the world know that love is a beautiful song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ldnpOwt8c