Happy Father's Day to all you hard-working, loving dads out there!
Mine passed away 2 years ago...and I miss him. My kids are not involved with the Big O...so we had a little celebration yesterday (the war on terror don't take Sundays off, LOL).
Hail, Fathers!
Carlos
Carlos_Helms
JoinedPosts by Carlos_Helms
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HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!!!
by nomoreguilt inlike myself, i know that there are many fathers here that have children, grown or young, that are still active jw's.
i have 2 sons, 30 and 34. one is active the other is not.
i know that i wll not recieve a call from them today.
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Carlos_Helms
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expenses -vs- donations............. the fall of the Watchtower empire
by DaCheech inas long as i've been here, i have preached that $$$$$ will be the only way for the wt to drop.. many agree on a small level, but think the wt has deep pockets.. they may have deep pockets, but i bet the investments they have have lost quite a bit since 2001.. my main calculation reguards the following hypothesis::::::.
magazine and literature consumption -vs- donations.
i know of 2 congregations, and let me post some figures:.
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Carlos_Helms
I believe you're right, Cheech. It's something I've believed for many years now.
The US Catholic Church is almost bankrupted (several diocese' are bankrupt) due to the molestation thing. The Catholic Church (esp the US Catholic Church) has MUCH deeper pockets than the Society ever dreamed of having, yet many diocese' are selling off their assets for settlements and civil court awards to victims.
The Society has been a master at CYA to date...but recently, courts have begun to decide in favor of victims and find the watchtower guilty of contributory negligence. A few more watchtower setbacks and there will be enough precedent to decide cases pending in every state. Why do you think the Society diversified its assets a few years back? If sub-corps hold all the assets, the WT feels they can't be touched. The courts are seeing through that ruse too.
I think pedophilia spells financial ruin for Brooklyn.
Carlos -
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Do the religious have higher morals than the non-religious?
by digderidoo inok, i was going to ask whether christians have higher morals, but i thought that other religions have the same kind of morals too.. when i look at those who sincerely follow their religion, i think that they do have a higher morality than those who do not follow some sort of scriptural guidelines.. this is not to say that the religious have a monopoly on morality, or to say that some religious people are not hypocritical in doing what they say, rather than what they do.
but as a whole it seems to me that someone with a religious upbringing has higher standards than someone without.. now some would say that higher standards or lower standards are defined by society, so therefore by whose definition do they have higher morals.
this would be a fair assumption.
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Carlos_Helms
If you define morality as a measurement from some religious benchmark then, yes, the religious are "more moral." Without the benchmarks, who's to say?
Jesus set a different, higher standard for "morality." He equated the "hater" with the "murderer" and the "luster" with the "adulterer." In his "kingdom standard," it would be impossible to measure the moral character of another. One might consider, then, the morality of judging another.
In truth, there is no measurable difference between the morality of the religious and non-religious populations. The religious can hate or lust as much or as little as the agnostic or atheist. According to Jesus, there are no measurements because there is no baseline. If person conquers hating and lusting, does he look any different than the person who represses his desires or hides his actions for the benefit of his reputation? Is it better to be externally-controlled...or not to need to be controlled?
We see morality from the standpoint of perfect adherence to certain accepted precepts - and immorality as the relative distance from those standards. It's a measure from the bottom up. Jesus, in his wisdom, asked his followers to measure themselves from the top down. If he conquered the world, he conquered its desires. By fulfilling the ancient Law Covenant (his timely arrival and loyalty to the death eliminated further need for it), he opened the door for us to "rise above" the necessity for external standards of control.
Carlos -
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I didn't know where to say Hi - so here I am
by rustonmyhalo ini don't know why i am always led back to jw's.
tonight i feel real confused.
i was searching the internet to try to find some evidence that jesus existed and that all religion is not just some great hoax.
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Carlos_Helms
Welcome, Rust.
Tell us about yourself!
Carlos -
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No school for you: confirmation of CO outline on education
by raindog ini just spoke with my dad after he returned from an elders meeting.
the co did say that elders would have to step down from their positions if they supported their child getting an education.
the reasoning behind this is that an elder is encouraging their children to attend college, they would not be able to counsel the rank and file on the issue.
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Carlos_Helms
"Back on topic... I have a letter written to me from the Writing Department stating that "there is nothing wrong in bettering ones' financial situation" by going to college. (Maybe I'll get around to scanning it in.) The double-speak never ceases to amaze me."
Now that presents an interesting dilemma, Daniel.
There's little doubt that the latest directive on education has come from under the auspices of the Service Department, under the tutelage of one Ted Jaracz. I've always sensed a certain "tension" between two of the primary WT departments ("Legal" has to be the new #1).
Fascinating!
Carlos -
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OK, let me explain....
by dawg inso, the last few threads i've written have been about telling your families and friends how you feel; many of you have given me the reasons you don't speak out to your families, but i want to tell you the main reason you should.
please let me explain.... .
i keep on stressing this point because how it makes you feel, i'm telling you all, that for over 19 years, i let information about my thoughts out slowly, then the tipping point... at my uncle's funeral 2 february's ago, while listening to my family pontificate at dinner about who so and so is pioneering and the like, it hit me that i was sick to the core of them throwing their bullisi*t beliefs at me like i was inferior or something.
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Carlos_Helms
Dawg, no need to explain. We get it. We always did. The problem is you don't get that not everyone has the same personality, circumstances or desires as you. Like I've said here before, leaving the WT is difficult and very personal, we should not judge anyone's method of leaving or how they chose to deal with the aftermath.
changeling :)"
There is a psychological truth (yes, there is one); that a person has to face the very thing that made him the way he is (assuming that he has come to the realization that he is sub-par in some aspect). It may be parents. It may be the watchtower. Here, it is likely both. Inevitably, it is some authority figure from whom you had every right to expect unconditional love...and they just flat didn't deliver. The point is, you need truth to heal...and you have to heal in order to stop the cycle...for yourself and the betterment of mankind. We all do - even our parents who neglected their own psychological health whilst passing the goo on down to us.
Off-hand, I'd say that the watchtower finds its greatest potential in being a catalyst for healing between so many children and their parents. That doesn't say much for it, as it is little more than a compilation and distillation of seven million screwed up people. Whatever works. But I see little value in pussy-footing around the subject while continuing to be victimized by it. That doesn't always necessitate the "pile-driver" approach. Approaches may be different based upon personality types or the health of those you are approaching. But, for yourself and your children, you must do something.
Carlos -
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Pathological President defends Iraq War
by nvrgnbk inbush defends iraq war in speech by steven lee myerspublished: march 20, 2008washington president bush used the fifth anniversary of the start of the war in iraq on wednesday to make the case for persevering in a conflict that could have many more anniversaries.
democrats accused him of lacking a strategy to win and withdraw.. mr. bush, speaking before members of the armed forces and defense officials at the pentagon, said in his frankest acknowledgment yet that the costs of the war, in lives and money, had been higher and longer lasting than he had anticipated.
but he remained unwavering in his insistence that the invasion of iraq, which began in march 2003, had made the world better and the united states safer.. "five years into this battle, there is an understandable debate over whether the war was worth fighting, whether the fight is worth winning, and whether we can win it," he said.
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Carlos_Helms
"Carlos, I'm quite surprised you even argued this point. It's been known for quite a while that America's involvement in Iraq has radicalized a lot of young folks in the Middle East against America. Can't you see it?"
Dude...I've been there. The radicalization process has increased OUTSIDE of Iraq because the Coalition has drawn a "line in the sand," so to speak. You're reading too much popular American newspaper if you believe an American presence has increased anything but insurgency (which it was intended to do). Let them stream across the border and allow the 10th Mountain Division or the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit (15 MEU, ooo-rah) deal with them. Gopher, you need to get your head out of the deep, dark crevasse of American agenda-pushing liberalism and see the light. All kinds of good things are happening in Iraq for Iraq...including the elimination of a lot of "radicalized young folks" from elsewhere who believe that Sharia Law should be World Law.
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Worship Me
by changeling ini was bored.
after a countless eternity alone, i was bored.
we spent a few eons alone together so he could get to know me well.
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Carlos_Helms
If it wasn't for diplomacy, I'd have been dead a long time ago.
That and I'm a man, you're a woman...and you're talking food. Round table or square?
Carlos -
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Worship Me
by changeling ini was bored.
after a countless eternity alone, i was bored.
we spent a few eons alone together so he could get to know me well.
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Carlos_Helms
Ha! I'm with you there, Changeling!
The Sunday brunch was the only thing that made my Sundays worthwhile for a good many years (especially the ones with the Mamosas - booze for breakfast post-public-talk).
No hard feelings, OK? You do write very well...
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How did your young children cope when you left?
by boyzone ini have an 8 year old son who's in primary school.
he has to pass 3 sisters and their kids most mornings and they shun me, so therefore they shun him too as he's with me.
he has known these people since birth so he's pretty confused by this.
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Carlos_Helms
My daughter was 9. She had always been my little "hypocrisy meter." Kids are like that. They haven't been around the block a million times and learned to suppress their God-given intuition or their feelings. They don't know "Go along to get along," which has ruined the world. Her developing little psyche (which I had trained as truth = what dad says) went on red alert when I walked out because it violated everything she had heard to date. How to deal with it?
1. Guilt is a killer. If you are "the truth" to them...and you feel guilty about leaving, they will sense the hypocrisy. Remember, YOU are the truth to them. Be sure, be honest, be forthright...and the truth of dad (or mom) will continue to be their truth and confusion will be minimized and confidence will soar. Overcoming obstacles together builds family strength.
2. Same as #1, but it bears repeating.
God bless!
carlos