As mentioned previously, she will get an acknowledgment of receipt of her letter from the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society and her letter will be forwarded to her body of elders to be dealt with locally. I hope it's not about monopoly money in the collection box.
Carlos
Carlos_Helms
JoinedPosts by Carlos_Helms
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4
Letter to the governing body
by is there help out there inthere is a girl at work who is a jw and she is righting a letter to the gb.
i`m not a jw and she will not tell what the letter is about.
after talking to her i feel it not any thing against the truth.
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Carlos_Helms
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Apply PHILOSOPHY to the argument of the TRINITY
by Terry inthe trinity doctrine is a conceptual classification.
it is not a thing itself.
we don't bump into a trinity in everyday life.
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Carlos_Helms
Not to throw a wrench in the works, Terry; but there is also the "c. I don't know" option. I can define "oneness" several commonly accepted ways in the corporeal realm; but I have greater difficulty in applying those definitions to the spirit realm, where I have little to no measurable experience.
The Bible explains the relationship between YHWH and Jesus as "father and son," for my clarity. I accept that description. The Bible also applies a "oneness of purpose" to the two. This I can also conceptualize because it falls within the realm of my experience. The "third person of the holy trinity" can, I suppose (although, philosophically, it's a little shaky due to multiple definitions), be included by extension and the fact that Jesus personalizes the holy spirit (defined by him as 'helper' or 'comforter').
Good game though! It's fun!
Carlos -
127
The End of Circuit Overseers
by scotsman inis indeed apparently nigh as another poster predicted along with the end of the weekly bs.
not sure when this should take place but i'm reliably informed by a family member that one of the uk's overseers was talking about it fairly recently.
reduced to weekend visits by an outside but local elder instead.. i have no further info..
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Carlos_Helms
"I was just a rank and file publisher, so I don't really know the ins and outs of a CO visit and its implications. Ex-elders: how effective were your CO's at enforcing Mother's wishes? Did you just give the right image for that week and then move on?
Also, did they enforce their own ideas, or were they Society men?
I'm trying to figure out how much enforcement/control CO's currently afford the Society."
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It covered the spectrum, Eyes Open. Needless to say, the shoes were shined to a glossy black for impending CO visits. There were a number of COs who were admirable men..."listeners," if you will. I had more trouble with DOs. One little man in particular stopped in the middle of his circuit assembly keynote discourse to demand the publishers stop chewing gum. The minutes-long silence was deafening. It was followed by a five-minute lecture berating the listeners on "etiquette." I believe it was the only time I ever got up and walked out. Of course, it probably wasn't perceived as any kind of "statement" on my part as I was the busiest little beaver on the assembly crew...but a few were privy to my overly-animated rant in the foyer (something about Bro. Little Tin God being a first-rate ass).
In my experience, the COs did a fair job of "clarifying" Society directives. Consider that I served in the 80s, and the full weight of the Society's post-apostasy schism had not been felt the wild, wild west. As I recall, the COs were called colporteurs and they arrived on horseback (LOL). In all honesty, most COs were good men who, when alone, expressed their concerns (ie: retirement, etc). Most feared being put out to pasture without a pot to urinate in. As such, I never really felt that they fully bought into the "Armageddon is imminent" claptrap...at least not to the exclusion of a healthy retirement account.
The dilemma faced by many COs was the Society's desire for legal autonomy at the congregation level (read: liability reduction) while maintaining control over the congregations' inner workings. It was left to the COs to integrate the two mutually-exclusive operating philosophies on the ground. No easy task.
Carlos -
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McLellan book & the GOP reaction...chance to wake up JWs?
by sir82 indon't want this thread to turn political, but.... have you noticed that just about every administration response to scott mclellan's new book attacks the messenger?
"he's disgruntled"..."it's not like him"..."we're disappointed he chose to do this"....etc.
not one word (that i have seen or heard) disputing the actual contents of the book.. sound familiar?
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Carlos_Helms
"It doesn't matter. What matters is that he said what he did, showing that even true believers in a certain monarchy/administration can change their minds and speak truth to power in a free society."
You mean, it doesn't matter to YOU, Gopher. The fact that it is released at election time speaks to motive...which very much matters to ME and, from what I'm reading, ColdRedRain.
IF (and I say "if" because I haven't read the book) McClellan did not have the security clearances necessary to access the inner-sanctum of Bush administration strategy sessions, then his evidence is circumstantial at best. In that case, the "shotgunning" of his thoughts and feelings on such matters at election time casts a serious shadow over the book's integrity, McClellan's intellectual honesty and his ethics. As classified information is discussed at presidential war-time strategy meetings; responses will of necessity be reserved and disseminated on a "need-to-know" basis. Basically, the administration is unable to respond in a manner that will satisfy the rabidly anti-Bush, media-dependent American public. So, you see, McClellan seems to be cutting a fat hog here. He can SAY what he wants and the predisposed are likely to believe, truth be damned. Obama and Clinton wasted little time jumping on the bandwagon. Anti-administration and agenda-driven liberal news sources have zeroed in on it. But due to the circumstances under which I perceive the book was written, I am unable to believe what I've heard from McClellan to date. No doubt, his royalty checks will beat unemployment.
Carlos -
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McLellan book & the GOP reaction...chance to wake up JWs?
by sir82 indon't want this thread to turn political, but.... have you noticed that just about every administration response to scott mclellan's new book attacks the messenger?
"he's disgruntled"..."it's not like him"..."we're disappointed he chose to do this"....etc.
not one word (that i have seen or heard) disputing the actual contents of the book.. sound familiar?
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Carlos_Helms
"Then exactly what would an "attack" look like? The neo-cons and conservatives are harshly criticizing McLellan and questioning his motives. The current White House press secretary all but called him a liar."
Pearl Harbor? Geez...I don't know. Did they bomb his house? What's the difference between a "neo-con" and a conservative?
"Then why don't they say it that way? Nobody has said that, they're saying he changed, implying he should have written a book full of warm fuzzies about the lot of them."
They did say it exactly that way.
"In the quotes I've seen from the book, I don't see Bush "hating" here. Unless someone calls disagreement with themselves "hatred". I know Bush treasures loyalty above all else -- if you're not "with" him you must be "against" him."
I said George Soros is a Bush-hater, not author McClellan.
"But which of the two administrations went in there, eschewing any diplomacy or futher sanctions (or any other options that could have been worked out), and tried to force democracy on an unwilling people there?"
Hmm. I take it you've been there? ANYWAY...the reason I mentioned two distinct administrations possessing the same intel was to verify that there was indeed the same intel received over several years. I didn't make a value judgment on either. In reality, one admin chose not to act on the intel while the other acted on it. UN sanctions were rejected by Saddam's regime 17 times. Would an endless stream of rejected sanctions have been a better option?
"Just like the administration had little doubt about so many things before the war (the war would be easily won, the WMD's were there, the people would welcome America as saviors, and wanted democracy)."
I don't know what that has to do with the WMDs being moved to Syria, but OK...fair enough. I can give a reply to a political statement as well. The war WAS easily won, twice, in a matter of hours. Obviously, the "nation-building" isn't going as well as expected. With respect to democracy in Iraq...I refer to my favorite analogy of "giving an ape a hundred-dollar bill."
Carlos -
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McLellan book & the GOP reaction...chance to wake up JWs?
by sir82 indon't want this thread to turn political, but.... have you noticed that just about every administration response to scott mclellan's new book attacks the messenger?
"he's disgruntled"..."it's not like him"..."we're disappointed he chose to do this"....etc.
not one word (that i have seen or heard) disputing the actual contents of the book.. sound familiar?
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Carlos_Helms
Hmm. Doesn't seem to be much of an "attack" on Messenger McClellan.
McClellan didn't have the clearances necessary to make the inferences he made. I believe that's the point the Bush administration is trying to make. There is also some peripheral chatter going on about McClellan's connections to billionaire George Soros...a man whose reputation as a Bush-hater precedes him.
I'd have to say that McClellan is most likely motivated by a fat paycheck. As a droll press secretary, he wasn't very popular...and his termination I'm sure left him high and dry. An "insider expose" is the ideal remedy for a Beltway has-been. Even a disloyal huckster needs some quick cash sometimes.
The WMD thing is old news. Both of the last two administrations were convinced that Saddam was in possession of biological and chemical weapons (the US provided them, for cryin' out loud) and was actively working on nuclear weapons. I have little doubt that they're sitting in Syria (along with several billions in American currency) as we speak.
Carlos -
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More Evidence that Jehovah Is a Tyrant
by WTWizard ini have observed that jehovah god is far from the loving father he portrays himself to be.
stifling my sex drive, and then exploiting it by using it to get me into a cult, hardly qualifies god as being loving.
and neither does continuing to stifle the sex drive after i am trying to leave the cult and quite likely using the hounders to reclaim me as their slave.. i found another web site that any theist should urgently look up before looking into any religion, whether jehovah's witnesses or any other "christian" or islam religion.
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Carlos_Helms
Hey, Sylvia...
"Not a one because the desire to do evil is imbedded within our DNA.
It is a constant fight to do what's right as we can all attest.
Sylvia"
I can't say for sure that evil-doing has a specific chromosome identified by the Human Genome Project; but I can say for a certainty that it appears to happen spontaneously, without a lot of resistance. I'd say it has BECOME natural for us to act out in response to a lack of some subconscious "thing" critical to our lives. I have little doubt that it's the "unconditional love" previously mentioned. We all need it...and some experience it to varying degrees; but it always seems to come down to "at what cost?" The resulting gaping crevasse in our souls creates a vacuum that sucks in all kinds of stuff we like to call "love" - but it never quite fits the bill. When the lack is realized, fear and anger are the results.
There is a rule of thumb that I learned a long time ago that's helped me to put some things in perspective: "Anger is the foremost manifestation of fear - and fear is the primary manifestation of feeling unloved." As such: "Love casts fear outside."
Ninety-nine percent of the world's problems could be solved by the realization of unconditional love...and what greater act of unconditional love is there than the ransom sacrifice of God's Son on our behalf?
It's a tough sell amongst former JWs. They've been taught to believe that love is nothing BUT conditional. If they were "born-in" it's an even tougher sell. But in a world of "what has God done for me lately?" I would ask, "what else does He NEED to do?" You are absolutely 100% fear-free (and subsequently anger-free) should you choose to accept that you are, no strings attached.
THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT
28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."
32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. (Mark 12, NIV)
Carlos -
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The hounders are once again up my arse... As of like, 2 minutes ago...
by cognac inthey told my husband they wanted to meet... tonight.... just what i want to do on a friday night... we just had a sheparding call a month ago with another elder.
i said to my husband, "why don't they just invite the entire body over to the house?
so hubby told them that.
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Carlos_Helms
"Strange how things vary from place to place ..I had been an elder myself, resigned then faded and None of them took any interest whatsover. .They must be more diligent in U S A. Or perhaps they did like having you there??"
Hmm. Beats me Blue. I did the same thing here in the US and didn't see another witness for years - other than incidentally. As I recall, the direction from the Society in 1990 was: "if they want to go, let them go." More recently I've heard instances where the elders have gone a-huntin' for old non-DF'd/-DA'd JWs to get them to commit, one way or the other. It's ludicrous in my mind.
The rationale back in 1990 was 'illegal harassment.' You can't just go pestering people when the hospitality rug has been withdrawn. Apparently, some have gone so far as to obtain court orders to prevent unwanted and harassing visits by clergy. I remember being told specifically to "leave so-n-so alone;" off the list, out of sight and out of mind. Sounds like one healthy approach amongst a very unhealthy people. I supposed it wouldn't last.
"Anything you say (or don't say) can and will be used against you in a kangaroo court of law." Whatever. Tough to win under those rules of engagement.
Carlos -
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More Evidence that Jehovah Is a Tyrant
by WTWizard ini have observed that jehovah god is far from the loving father he portrays himself to be.
stifling my sex drive, and then exploiting it by using it to get me into a cult, hardly qualifies god as being loving.
and neither does continuing to stifle the sex drive after i am trying to leave the cult and quite likely using the hounders to reclaim me as their slave.. i found another web site that any theist should urgently look up before looking into any religion, whether jehovah's witnesses or any other "christian" or islam religion.
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Carlos_Helms
"Carlos, you are a wise man.
I must admit, the God in the Old Testament does seem MEAN, jealous, demanding, petty. BUT, me being human, it's quite possible there is just alot I don't understand about him.
Now, when Christ was here, he tried to show us things in human terms that we could understand. It just kinda made me feel like God has split personalities or something.
I just don't get it."
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I'm hardly "wise," Dinah. Just been around the block a time or two.
With respect to the "tyrannical God" dilemma:
I found that the first thing I had to do was forget about my preconceived notions about death and destruction. My ideas are flawed...and, because we are so biased toward self-preservation, all we can see is a domineering, tyrannical God. In reality, death means squat...and life (real life, not walking zombie-life) means a lot more than we think it does. Life, when seen from an eternal perspective, has little or nothing to do with these corporeal bodies we inhabit for the time being. All that OT death and destruction stuff did was guarantee the timely arrival of the Messiah. That arrival and the faithfulness of the Messiah to the death ensures life for those who came before, during and after him. I have no problem with that. Knowledge (particularly of the big picture) is power.
The next thing I had to do was dismiss my expectations. God never disappoints me. I disappoint me. I own my expectations...and when they fail to come to fruition, it is me, myself and I who are accountable. When unrealistic expectations meet reality, reality is always the winner. Best to get real.
The third thing I had to do was de-condition my conditioning. In other words, nearly everything I ever learned was geared to benefit someone else. That is insufficient and unacceptable. All I ever learned is to "go along to get along." That gets nowhere with God and it gets nowhere here. It's not living...it's dying slowly. Why should I sell my soul to the Church of the Perpetually-Hypnotized?
The fourth thing I am currently doing: starting over from scratch. It's what re-birth is all about. All anybody ever really wants is to be loved unconditionally. It's a done-deal, a gift from above - and all we need to do is real-ize it. I terminated my membership in the "I'd never belong to a club who'd have me as a member" club.
Jehovah isn't a "tyrant." Our demands upon Him are tyrannical, however. "Unloved" people are a spiteful lot. People ought to be more careful what they ask for. If Jehovah was bow to the demands of many here and eliminate evil...who would be left standing?
Carlos -
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ACHIEVE YOUR "BLISS", spirituality, cosmic consciousness HERE!
by Terry inas civilization has advanced, one after another areas of magic, mysticism, superstition and myth have been blown away by rational investigation, testing, measuring, reasoning and recording data.
the last stand of the "believer" is the miraculous: the as yet unexplained.. this consists of blindly insisting on the unintelligible!
the faithful and discreet slave, for example, knows what you cannot know by yourself.
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Carlos_Helms
What is a mystery to me is how a person cannot sense God in that which is right in front of his face. When I meet a person face-to-face, I don't need his "formula"...the REAL evidence for his being (as if my senses are somehow faulty). But I digress...
Great thoughts, Terry. Regardless of a pro-God or anti-God belief system (yes...it exists too), it's both amusing and tragic that some have created businesses out of explaining (or unexplaining) God to those who have been conditioned to believe that their own senses are faulty or "untrained." But, whatcha gonna do? "Bliss" is at your fingertips...but that's not what people really want, right?
Carlos