Hi SethMo Im glad u posted here. Im wondering if I can ask ...do Mormons REALLY NOT drink coffee when no one is looking?...I have a friend who when Mormons come to the door he invites them in for coffee and keeps insisting to the great displeasure of these visitors as they are unable to give a detailed answer as to why they cant stay for coffee and they end up leaving .... Whats are the facts with regard to coffee? THanks.
fedorE
JoinedPosts by fedorE
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greetings fellow apostates!
by SethMo ini should introduce myself, since this is my first post.
i'm actually not an ex-jw, but rather someone who has just lost his faith in a different church, the mormon church.
i've long suspected that in terms of the organizational aspects of our two churches, how they hook you mentally, how they condition you, how they socialize you and make it very hard to leave, from an abstract level there's really not a dime's worth of difference.
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What if an "annointed" sister legally challenged GB for her appointment?
by fedorE inwww.nypost.com/seven/09142007/news/regionalnews/loony_cuny_suit.htm.
of course they would disfellowship her faster than ...but if they included all races...the time could feasibly come when someone legitamately challenges the descrimination of having no woman on the gb..recently the law said a "fraternity" must allow women into its male brotherhood.
i can't help but wonder how absolutely incredible it would be if somehow someway a member of the "annointed" went through the american court system and forced the gb to appoint her to a place as the first women on the gb... a womans touch!......revolutionary....lol....
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fedorE
THE main arguement is Discrimination. The 'sister" and lawyer could make the case there existed women on the gb in the 1st century model...and argue discrimination. Discrimination overrules religion. Im just thinking out loud...prolly be squashed but .. i used to know a "annointed" sister who wanted to be served "hand and foot"..some ppl did and some ppl really disliked her. All it takes for this case is the "right" candidate..LOL
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What if an "annointed" sister legally challenged GB for her appointment?
by fedorE inwww.nypost.com/seven/09142007/news/regionalnews/loony_cuny_suit.htm.
of course they would disfellowship her faster than ...but if they included all races...the time could feasibly come when someone legitamately challenges the descrimination of having no woman on the gb..recently the law said a "fraternity" must allow women into its male brotherhood.
i can't help but wonder how absolutely incredible it would be if somehow someway a member of the "annointed" went through the american court system and forced the gb to appoint her to a place as the first women on the gb... a womans touch!......revolutionary....lol....
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fedorE
www.nypost.com/seven/09142007/news/regionalnews/loony_cuny_suit.htm
Of course they would disfellowship her faster than ...but if they included all races...the time could feasibly come when someone legitamately challenges the descrimination of having no woman on the GB..Recently the law said a "fraternity" must allow women into its male brotherhood. I can't help but wonder how ABSOLUTELY incredible it would be if somehow someway a member of the "annointed" went through the American court system and forced the GB to appoint her to a place as the first women on the GB... a womans touch!......revolutionary....lol...
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Intresting pic
by fedorE inmichigan 2006..his mother says he was about to have surgery and this his is guadian angel.... .
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fedorE
NO...their invisible IN the box so capturing them is not going to work.. but the picture is actually a Real Spirit Creature who handled the surgery for the young man pictured. The doctor would have killed him and the angel guided his hand.
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Intresting pic
by fedorE inmichigan 2006..his mother says he was about to have surgery and this his is guadian angel.... .
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fedorE
But the angel IS being pooped out of the dog's arse...doesnt that count for anything?
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Intresting pic
by fedorE inmichigan 2006..his mother says he was about to have surgery and this his is guadian angel.... .
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fedorE
Michigan 2006..his mother says he was about to have surgery and this his is guadian angel...
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How many ex-JWs world wide alive right now?
by Shawn10538 ini seem to remember some statistics on this but i'd like to find out how many you all think there are.
i remember hearing a statistic that i think came from the wt itself, stating that 70,000 jws are disfellowshipped every year.
so if every witness that has been disfelloshipped for the last 50 years is still alive, and we say that the average jws dfd a year is more like 50,000, that's 50,000 x 50 which equals - 2,500,000 ex-jws.
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fedorE
The number of former members of baptized Jehovahs Witnesses disfellowshipped since 1972 is 572, 337. Ok not really but i really like the sound of it.
But really tho i recall that between 30-40,000 were being dfd each yr from about 15-20 yrs ago. So...that s the figure i recall and the only one.
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What is your personal definition of evil?
by fedorE inhow do you see evil in general?
recently a book i came across people of the lie by a well known psychologist m. scott peck discussed evil and evil in some of his patients.
to him any harm whatsoever inflicted on another person is evil and a mental illness that can be cured.
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fedorE
So are you saying that evil does not exist in any one particular 'individual' but only as a 'collective'? Sorry, I disagree
No im not saying that..
As far as the governing body is concerned as a GROUP making decisions for their followers they make EVIL decsions to be sure but individually i have to believe that there must be some who are not evil within that group...(as can be seen imo with R Franz) simple enough no? I dont think RF was evil while he was a GB member do you?But like the example above, they know full well that there ARE going to be Witnesses that die from THEIR policy, but it's a sacrifice the GB are willing to make, just to try and keep the status quo and delay costly lawsuits.
Sure but again the point I am making is that to make the broad generalization that THE FDS or THE GB or for that matter Jehovah's Witnesses ARE EVIL is not accurate because there exist those within who aren't malicious or wish to do any harm and are willing to change themselves. However, when you think of that relgion there no hope for change. There is seemingly NO possibility for change within that structure. But there IS hope with individuals to leave and to change. Perhaps a distinction without much of a difference, but still a fine line in there some where.
(BTW the majority of Americans I bet would say Bush is a Failure or the Worst President in History but i doubt the majority of Americans would equate Bush eg: Hitler)
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What is your personal definition of evil?
by fedorE inhow do you see evil in general?
recently a book i came across people of the lie by a well known psychologist m. scott peck discussed evil and evil in some of his patients.
to him any harm whatsoever inflicted on another person is evil and a mental illness that can be cured.
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fedorE
So many here are saying the governing body IS EVIL incarnate.. Im not so sure. In fact i would argue against the fact that individuals on the GB are evil. Once u start to call someone like Gerrit Loach evil you can easily conclude they know themselves that they are ruining ppls lives and are taking delight in it. If some on the GB are or have been destructive, fosted crime, are hate filled, have a desire to kill, all culminating in the death of people as the opposite to for example weak willed, manipulative, unpleasant, and annoying,
THEN i would agree.Why? Don't we normally view evil as evil because of the harm it does? The harm the GB has done IS they have done harm resulting from ppl's unswerving obedience to a belief system. Yes, what comes to mind is death from lack of blood transfusions, BUT IF THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE GOVERNING BODY WAS TO KILL then i would agree THEY ARE EVIL but thats not the case and we know it. For how ever much they are deluded and refuse to acknowledge the harm they have caused it DOES turn into CHOICE. PPL can make a choice to obey a belief which takes away individual freedom and can even trust the GB OR they can chose to disobey it when faced with death from a blood transfusion. AND this is why we have EX JWS because we disagree with the beliefs that can lead to our suffering the loss of a loved one from death due to no blood. Collectively the governing body upholds the blood policy.CONSIDER however that indvidually some members of the governing body may be totally against the policy. The catholic church isnt considered EVIL any longer, but certainly some of its members are and they have caused evil and the church itself killed ppl in the past. BUT of course Within the church ARE good leaders, leaders who would never harm. Conversly those on the GB who desire to seize the free will of believers and abuse and kill ARE EVIL to be sure.But even Ray Franz has had good things to say about members of the governing body he knew...even though they were weak-willed.
Evil Results From the Lack of Free Will but it isnt EVIL when one CHOOSES to follow the GB It becomes evil if the GB scheme to kill, and destroy those that Choose to follow them. Most of the Governing Body are seen as GOD subconsciously by ppl in the religion. When faced with a crisis of conscious to chose between obedience to the GB or saving the life of your child needing a blood transfusion I would argue that there is still enough free will on the part of the person to say "The GB can F**K off im not obeying THAT ...give my child blood!" Resulting in one more EXJW.In summary I would say that the religion tends to be destructive but the leaders on th GB themselves are not necessarily evil. Just my opinion.
I agree that Evil is the exercise of power, the imposing of one's will upon others by overt or covert coercion but it would be COLLECTIVELY as a religion NOT individually. I believe individual members of the GB are always in a subconscious state of confusion. They know they arent GOD .In their subconscious is that VOICE THAT EVERY PERSON HEARS. IE: TO DO NO HARM.
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What is your personal definition of evil?
by fedorE inhow do you see evil in general?
recently a book i came across people of the lie by a well known psychologist m. scott peck discussed evil and evil in some of his patients.
to him any harm whatsoever inflicted on another person is evil and a mental illness that can be cured.
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fedorE
How do you see EVIL in general? Recently a book i came across PEOPLE OF THE LIE by a well known psychologist M. Scott Peck discussed evil and evil in some of his patients. To him any harm whatsoever inflicted on another person is evil and a mental illness that can be cured. FOr all the insights he gave into evil and the indepth coverage of the subject he included OF ALL THINGS DEMONIC POSSESSION as a bonafide "force" humans should be aware of and battle.He was ridiculed for his opinions and followed up with another work detailing his cases... Of course there are Catholic Priests like the late Malachi Martin who although having a bad reputation himself is well known for his claims of excorcisms. After being moulded as a child with JW beliefs, until now,i still get a gut feeling evil is more than we know.. But i speak in generalities as I havent made up my mind. Have you? What is your definition of evil? My "definition" of evil is: The infliction of phychological and physical terror. (But by that definition i am probably offending Bible believers since YHWH was only too happy to ask Abraham to sacrifice his only son. So if you believe in the God of the Bible give your definition)