Posts by Awakened07

33

GOD---the anti-concept

by Terry in

telling you what something is not is the opposite of identification.. .

1.someone the human mind cannot grasp.. 2.not human.

3.not earthly.

Awakened07

This consciousness is what I call the Divine Intelligence and through the natural world/cosmos that resulted
from this movement, everything else came into being. I don't think this Divine Intelligence or Pure Consciousness is an entity or God Blob. I think it is
in all, through all, and around all and we have the potential to be able to tap into it.

As Dr. Phil would say: "How's that working for you?". No , but seriously - let's say you're right (and I'm not totally alien to the idea, actually). How does this "hypothesis" help answer certain questions that always arise when it comes to some kind of interfering deity? The problem of suffering and evil is still there, for instance. I hear stories, from you and others, how this 'force' is guiding certain events in your lives so that you have to believe there's something more. This in turn begs the question why this force only decides to help some, in what seems to be very arbitrary ways, granting a soccer mom the same parking space five days in a row, while ignoring a girl being raped nearby, to put it bluntly (and exaggerate to make a point). If this intelligent 'force' is powerful enough to have caused the universe to exist as it is, it should be powerful enough to help us all in more effective ways, IMO.

A non-interfering such force I could "get" with what I see around me, but then again - if it's not interfering at all, it may as well not exist.

An interfering such force however, raises a few questions. Doesn't it?

50

Struggling with the concept of a "God"

by littleblueuk in

this topic, i'm sure, has been discussed many times, but today i am really contemplating the concept of god.. i remember vividly the old testament; the israelites slaughtering everyone in their path, men, women and children at god's direction at jericho, leaving no one alive.

i remember thinking then as a child how cruel that was.

there are many other examples.. then reading the news today i read a section in the world news about india.

Awakened07

Awakened07,
Thank you for explaining clearly a concept which has been half formed in my head for a while but which I have not been able to put into words.

Thanks for 'getting it', and for brilliantly extrapolating on it.

The God of the Bible allowed the slaughter of people who never knew him, including
children.

Oh, he did "better" than that. He killed David and Bathsheba's baby as a punishment meant for David...!

And cursed whole lineages of 'wrongdoers', not just the individual 'wrongdoer'. That's some divine justice right there.

Some people go through life from birth to death at 90 y.o. with not much more than the sniffles. Others are chained to a wheelchair or bed their entire lives, with excruciating pain.

I guess some are born with more original sin than others.

74

How do we know that humans have been around for more than 6000 years?

by inkling in

after a conversation with my dad last night, i realized that it is fairly.

easy for jws to weasel out of issues involving the fossil record because.

a) the wt has very little to say on the subject and b) witnesses are.

Awakened07

Sorry, I seem to have jumped in at the wrong place with my post above.

So let me backtrack a little:

I have read extensively on the subject of Civilization and still I can NOT bring myself to believe that humans roamed around for millions and millions of years and suddenly became Civilized only a few shorts years ago compared to millions and millions of years..

Modern humans are now said to have originated in Africa (by the most widely accepted model as of now based on DNA sequencing) approx. 200.000 years ago. This is a considerably shorter time than 'millions of years', although I know that figure was mentioned earlier in this thread.

So - 'people' of more or less our intelligence were around 200.000 years ago. It took them approx. 180.000 years to come up with 'civilization' as we know it. So, this is still a long time, I'll grant you that. I would guess though, that survival rate and life expectancy was low for quite some time (like it still is in many countries today).

-It seems to me, though, that there are 'trigger events' that pushes development forward. As for the statement I quoted above, one might as well marvel at how pretty much all technology we know of at all has come about in the last couple of hundred years. Thousands of years living in relative simplicity, and then *boom* (more or less), and we have microwave ovens, cell phones, computers, particle accelerators, satellites, radio telescopes, etc. etc. etc. in only the last 100 years. "Why did we as humans sit on our collective butts for thousands of years and not do this until now?", one could similarly ask.

74

How do we know that humans have been around for more than 6000 years?

by inkling in

after a conversation with my dad last night, i realized that it is fairly.

easy for jws to weasel out of issues involving the fossil record because.

a) the wt has very little to say on the subject and b) witnesses are.

Awakened07

Lonely sheep according to the Enclyopedia Britanica, Civilization has been present for only 10 to 12 thousand years. NOT millions! That to me is a short period of time.

Yes, there's a difference between 'humans' and 'civilizations'.

A civilization is: a human society or culture group normally defined as a complex society characterized by the practice of agriculture and settlement in cities.

50

Struggling with the concept of a "God"

by littleblueuk in

this topic, i'm sure, has been discussed many times, but today i am really contemplating the concept of god.. i remember vividly the old testament; the israelites slaughtering everyone in their path, men, women and children at god's direction at jericho, leaving no one alive.

i remember thinking then as a child how cruel that was.

there are many other examples.. then reading the news today i read a section in the world news about india.

Awakened07

I wrote:

But - - - had things down the line been slightly different - - - - - well, then things had been slightly different (or very different, depending)! And we'd be none the wiser. That reality would have been the reality.

with regards to us being here at this forum right now as a product of events in our ancestral past, and events in our own lives.

2+2 will get you a step further.

BTW, could I perhaps interest you in a few slightly used, paperback and hard cover editions of the WBTS' Creation books? I can't use them anymore, but you on the other hand can simply rip out the pages containing doctrine, and will instantly have some colorfully illustrated books to use in your preaching work. Free of charge.

50

Struggling with the concept of a "God"

by littleblueuk in

this topic, i'm sure, has been discussed many times, but today i am really contemplating the concept of god.. i remember vividly the old testament; the israelites slaughtering everyone in their path, men, women and children at god's direction at jericho, leaving no one alive.

i remember thinking then as a child how cruel that was.

there are many other examples.. then reading the news today i read a section in the world news about india.

Awakened07

God regards the fallen human race as his enemy. God makes it clear that he is not the "father" of those that break his laws; and ALL break his laws. To be a child of God, a person must be born again, into HIS family. The evidence around us supports these premises. Of course, bible cults, paganism and atheism are short-term options for folks prior to judgment. They just aren't very wise ones.

With actual Christians like these, who needs spoof websites? Anyway. As for probability mentioned in posts above, it often becomes impossibly small because one goes from the end result down. What I mean is, one assumes that the 'end result' is the only result possible, and that the end result was a planned goal. For example: Let's take a look at all of us reading this thread. We know it's a fact that we're here, and that we're reading the thread. So it has happened. It is happening. Now, take a look at your day today. Could something have occurred that would have prevented you from being here right now? Of course it could have. And if it had, you wouldn't be here right now. Now look at your entire life. Could events have happened in your life to alter the course of events, so that for instance you were still a JW, and therefore wouldn't be here now? Of course. Now look at your parents' lives. How many things had to come together at the right times in their lives for you to eventually come along? Now look through events in your grandparents' lives, and so on and so forth, for all the things that had to happen on specific dates in each and everyone's lives for everything to be exactly as it is today. Now you can extend this to every one of us sitting here reading this. And you can also extend it to those people in some way responsible for the invention of the computer and the internet, and their ancestors and all that had to happen for everything to be exactly as it is today in their lives. -Now what are the odds that you and I and everyone here are here, right now, reading this thread on these computers? The odds of all those things coming together over thousands of years in billions of people's lives in exactly the right order at the exact time in each person's life to produce this exact outcome, is infinitely small. In other words, it's impossible that we're all here right now! But is it? Of course not! We are here right now, reading this! If the goal thousands of years ago was that we should sit at our specific desks at our exact computers at this particular time, then the odds of that happening by chance would be non-existent. But it has happened. We are sitting here. But - - - had things down the line been slightly different - - - - - well, then things had been slightly different (or very different, depending)! And we'd be none the wiser. That reality would have been the reality. It is "impossible" that we're here - but it has happened. We are here.

36

So it happened...I met with my Mom and Dad...

by Confession in

brief historical recounting.... 3rd generation of 4 generation jw family.

elder for three years.

realized "the truth" wasn't in september of 2004. tried to fade by moving from michigan to southern california in june of 2005 with my (then) 17 year old daughter (who eventually left the organization herself.

Awakened07

But, the truth is, Dad is 75 and Mom 74. I see no reason to try to bring their world down--even if I could. And, the fact is, if they're okay with talking to me while adopting a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, I'm okay with it too.

I've come to the same conclusions myself. As for your letter, it was probably very good for yourself to get it out on paper, plus it affected many people here, so it was definitely not a waste.

Good luck.

18

-Let's say you had never heard of the Bible:

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

let's say you've grown up in a country that - somehow - has shielded you completely from any knowledge of the bible and its god and history.

all your life you've believed in the four legged, three headed, four winged borlifingus (of course, the arms, legs etc.

are just representations of it's spiritual properties).

Awakened07

-I have to go, but keep'em coming.

Remember, you are the villager wanting confirmation of the Bible's divinity.

Also remember that you already have many spiritual experiences and wise teachers in your tribe, along with your very own anecdotes and written words of wisdom.

18

-Let's say you had never heard of the Bible:

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

let's say you've grown up in a country that - somehow - has shielded you completely from any knowledge of the bible and its god and history.

all your life you've believed in the four legged, three headed, four winged borlifingus (of course, the arms, legs etc.

are just representations of it's spiritual properties).

Awakened07

Sorry, I edited and changed the game slightly.

18

-Let's say you had never heard of the Bible:

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

let's say you've grown up in a country that - somehow - has shielded you completely from any knowledge of the bible and its god and history.

all your life you've believed in the four legged, three headed, four winged borlifingus (of course, the arms, legs etc.

are just representations of it's spiritual properties).

Awakened07

Let's say you've grown up in a country that - somehow - has shielded you completely from any knowledge of the Bible and its God and history.

All your life you've believed in the four legged, three headed, four winged Borlifingus (of course, the arms, legs etc. are just representations of It's spiritual properties). You and your ancestors have prayed to your God, and It has answered, many times. You also have anecdotal evidence of Its existence.

And here suddenly along comes a Bible believer wanting to convert you, and tells you that the God you've believed in all your life and your ancestors all believed in, is false - doesn't exist.

-Let's say you're not going to just take it by what this preacher is telling you; you need some hands-on evidence.

What evidence that the Bible is true could the preacher show you, for you to convert?

Examples, please.