Posts by Frenchy

44

-WORDS-

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

the views expressed here are my own and i state them as such.

perhaps some will agree with me, for a certainty others will not.

i invite comment and discussion regardless of your viewpoint.

Thanks for the hug, Red, right back at ya'! Your and Path's comments about the unacceptability of the notion that membership in an organization is a requirement for salvation is one shared by many people.
No, Maxee, I cannot imagine Jesus saying that.
Welcome aboard, katchoo. I look forward to your posts.
SC, thanks. Waiting, thank you too , I appreciate your response. I quite agree with your assessment of what has come to be named comment #3:

I've never heard comment #3 you quoted above referred to worldly people. After all, "Jesus was saying that we should not be judging one another." That sentence does not refer to worldly persons. That sentence does refer to Christians and that Christians were not to judge each other.

No Witness applies this to worldly people. It is an excellent example of WTS 'language'. I commented only briefly on that so-called comment #3 but it was not because there was nothing to say about it nor does it in any way contradict my line of reasoning. Actually, a close examination of the text will show it's true meaning as you have already deduced, waiting.

Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours

Who is this 'one another'? Is that term defined here? No. Could it mean the world in general? To a worldly person, certainly. To a Witness reading this, what would 'one another' suggest? Yep, you got it. WTS language, double meanings. The next sentence is just a filler. It goes without saying that outward appearances do not mean anything to God. It does not answer the question that was posed. Now had that sentence been : "God looks at one's heart, not one's religion" . Now that would have been pertinent to the question. That would have been a definitive answer. And now for the last sentence about God having committed the judging to Jesus and not ours, what does this really mean? It's a vague reference to John 5:22. It's a deliberate sidestepping of the question. The question had nothing to do with whether God or Jesus was going to do the actual judging. As a matter of fact the previous sentence says that "God...judges mercifully" . Why, at this point, throw in the second sentence? Taken at face value it appears to be a contradiction. Why do that at this time? Is the question about who will judge? No. Then why bring it up? Now had that sentence been something like: "We do not presume to judge who will and who will not be saved based on their religion. God is not bound by religious boundaries in his judging. Christianity itself is a religion, everything else is man-made", then it would have been more of a response to the question. But the society could not state it in such a way because then the Witnesses would become confused by such a straightforward response. They chose, rather, to obscure the answer by clever use of the WTS language. One statement that would mean one thing to a 'worldly' person and the complete opposite to a Witness. Very cleverly done. Almost diabolic, wouldn't you say?

28

Boudreax and Thibodeaux

by Frenchy in

anybody know any of those jokes?

Frenchy

Hey, I like dat tongue!

Here's another one:
Boudreaux and Thibodeaux are sitting around drinking beer. Thibodeaux asks him: "Hey, Boudreaux, what you gonna do for you vacation dis year?
"Well I can tell you one t'ing, I ain't gonna take you advise 'bout dat no more!
"Whatsamatta wit' you? What did I done?"
"Well tree years ago you said I should go to Mexico. I went and Marie she got pregnant. Two years ago you said to go to Alaska and I went and Marie, she got pregnant again. An only las' year you said I should go to Tahiti an' I went and Marie she got pregnant again! It ain't gonna be like dat dis year!"
Thibodeaux looked at him cautiously and asked: "Well what you gonna do dis year dat's different?"
Boudreaux replied: "Dis year, I'm taking Marie wit' me!"

7

Runaway Train

by Seven in

whenever i am stressed out i either paint or play guitar.

today was a guitar day.

runaway but it always seems the same.

Frenchy

I like the lyrics...wish I could hear the music! Thanks for sharing with us...

13

Enter The Traveler

by Frenchy in

ah, gather 'round, ye olde companions, gather 'round the dying light and while we imbibe the last of this good ale and say a fond farewell to this day the french knight will tell you a tale that was told to him whilst he was in a far away land.

i remember not the teller of the tale other than he was one who seemed convinced of the account, perhaps one who witnessed the strange events i am about to recount to you.

here is the tale, judge for yourself.. in the third year of the reign of good king beltheheezar it came to pass that spring at long last sprang upon the countryside and the long, bitter winter which would not be soon forgotten was now a thing of the past.

Frenchy

That is the end of the tale my fellows. I pass not judgment on its truth but merely recount it for your consideration. Perhaps one of you would care to step up here in the firelight and tell us of some wondrous tale of your own???

13

Enter The Traveler

by Frenchy in

ah, gather 'round, ye olde companions, gather 'round the dying light and while we imbibe the last of this good ale and say a fond farewell to this day the french knight will tell you a tale that was told to him whilst he was in a far away land.

i remember not the teller of the tale other than he was one who seemed convinced of the account, perhaps one who witnessed the strange events i am about to recount to you.

here is the tale, judge for yourself.. in the third year of the reign of good king beltheheezar it came to pass that spring at long last sprang upon the countryside and the long, bitter winter which would not be soon forgotten was now a thing of the past.

Frenchy

"He is a man." Ahad broke in. "A man well trained and disciplined and we need to take heed of his words. We have twenty-five thousand troops. His majesty is able to hire five thousand mercenaries and have them here in three days giving us an army of thirty thousand. What say you to that, minstrel?"
"A gallant plan, my lord, but still far short of what is needed."
"Surely..." Ahad began but stopped.
"We need to have at least sixty thousand on that wall in ten days from now."
"Sixty thousand!" The king exclaimed. "There is no way! We are doomed!"
The meeting adjourned amid great despair on the part of all. The king's physicians tended to the wounded and the traveler took a walk in the garden. It was the first time in his life that he had encountered such a situation, where the fate of a city was in his hands. Many was the time that he had been responsible for the falling of a city but never for its salvation. He was leaning how much more difficult it is to protect than it is to destroy. So deep was he in his despair that he didn't notice that the princess was besides him until she spoke.
"You are troubled, minstrel."
"Yes, your highness, I am that indeed. Your city is in great danger and I seem unable to effect a defense."
"You could simply walk away and you would be in no danger." She offered.
"How can you say that?" He countered. "To suggest that I leave you and your city to be plundered, destroyed, ravaged...no, it is unthinkable on my part to do so."
"Then I want to help." She said in that childish way of hers.
He smiled condescendingly. "I am grateful for your offer, princess, but I..."
A strange and wonderful thought came into his head just as he was about to dismiss her. He made some quick calculations and a smile spread across his face. Yes, it could work. It would have to work, it was their only hope.
"That is a splendid idea, your highness. I think that with your help we will be victorious." He said with such enthusiasm that her face exploded into a smile.
The master of the Khali-ti sat in the saddle of his steed and surveyed the walls of the city. He had decided on a straight on frontal attack. The catapults were all in place, carefully brought in at night over a two week period and then assembled all in one night. Their distance carefully calculated for the height of the wall. The volley of burning sulfur and pitch would provide the cover for the rush of the small army. Once next to the wall the gate would be set on fire while the first wave of attackers began scaling the walls and the second volley from the catapults would be released. That would keep the soldiers off of the wall with the hot oil and stones they would surely be dropping on the climbers. Once near the top of the wall the catapults would no longer be prudent and at that time the archers would be picking off the soldiers brave enough to station themselves there. The archers were experts and never missed. The master had calculated his losses to be at most perhaps forty men by that time. Once the wall was scaled by that first wave of a hundred soldiers, the battle would be half over. Once over that wall and in hand to hand combat, the brothers of the order would realize a kill ratio of no less than a hundred to one. If the fire didn't do the job on the gate then the brothers inside would open it and the rest of the army would pour into the city.
The master had not discounted the possibility of the renegade inside setting up traps for them and each and every night spies were sent out to check the attack route to be sure that no pits or snares or any of the hundred and one entanglements known to the order would be set up to impede the invasion. He was certain that the path was clear because for the last five days no one had entered or left the city. As for what he could do beyond that, well that could not amount to much. The master knew the size of the army and there simply were not enough soldiers to stop them. The moment was approaching and he watched for the first sign of the sun poking its face above the mountain.
The city was quiet, perhaps for the first time in its existence. Not a soul stirred and if someone were able to see it as from the view of an eagle, he would suspect that all had fled and that no one remained. The fact was, however, that everyone was very much there, as a matter of fact, more than everyone was there. Twenty-five thousand soldiers lined the walls, five thousand mercenaries stood beside them and...
The young traveler could not help but be proud of the feat he had accomplished. For the past few days he had been training the trainers of the merchants, farmers, business men, any man who was able to stand and hold a bow in his hand was now on the wall. But it was not that so much that amused him as what the princess had prompted as she stood there in her white linen dress and offered to help. On the wall, next to the men numbering forty thousand were the wives, daughters, mistresses, slave women, whores, and every woman not too old or feeble to hold a long bow in her hands. It was that that gave him his army of sixty thousand, an army so large that not even the Khali-ti would be foolish enough to tackle. True, most of that number were not warriors but those outside the walls would not know that. He smiled as he motioned the guard to open the gate and let him out on his mount just before the day broke.

13

Enter The Traveler

by Frenchy in

ah, gather 'round, ye olde companions, gather 'round the dying light and while we imbibe the last of this good ale and say a fond farewell to this day the french knight will tell you a tale that was told to him whilst he was in a far away land.

i remember not the teller of the tale other than he was one who seemed convinced of the account, perhaps one who witnessed the strange events i am about to recount to you.

here is the tale, judge for yourself.. in the third year of the reign of good king beltheheezar it came to pass that spring at long last sprang upon the countryside and the long, bitter winter which would not be soon forgotten was now a thing of the past.

Frenchy

A tiny crescent of light began peeking over the mountain and the masters horse, sensing the impending battle began to snort and prance about, eager to charge. Its rider's eyes swept the scene around him, assuring himself that all was in place. He raised his hand high as a signal to prepare the charge but before he could complete the sequence that would send five hundred of the finest fighting men ever assembled, he saw something that did not belong there. A lone rider coming right at them. An emissary suing for peace? A last attempt at a bribe? Then he recognized the man.
The master looked into the eyes of the one that had been his protege. "I have no business with dogs." He spat.
"This day it will be dogs that will be your undoing." The young man said without emotion, in the tone that the master had trained him to use when dealing with an enemy.
"You have been reduced to calling out empty threats, have you?"
"I come here to you out of regard for the bond that was once between us, master. I come this day to afford you the opportunity to prevent the slaughter of my former brothers."
The master smiled. "You were the best, you know. Your pleas will do you no good this day, jackal. Return to the city and prepare for your death."
"Would you do me but one favor and ride with me as far as the stream that is before the wall?"
"For what purpose?" He asked warily.
"Surely the lion does not fear the jackal." The traveler said with a smile.
The master barked out a command to his subordinate and spurred his horse on to catch up with the young man trotting ahead. The stream was close by and in a short time they were there. The master's eyes swept the top of the wall.
"In a moment I am going to reveal to you what it is that you are up against. I do this out of honor and respect to you and to my brothers of the Khali-ti. I bear you no ill though I was purchased by you as one might buy a goat and then trained as one might a horse and then used as one might plow with an ox. That is finished and I will count the missions I have accomplished for the order as payment for my education and sustenance while I was but a boy. I wish you to know now that I owe you nothing, our account is settled. After this day you might find yourself in my debt." Just as the master was about to become indignant over that suggestion, the traveler waved a hand in the air and shouted: "Behold your enemy!"
At that instant and in response to the signal, sixty thousand heads shot up from behind the shielding wall that ran on top of the main wall. Despite all his training and discipline, the master's face betrayed his utter surprise at what he saw. His eyes grew wide and his nostrils flared.
"This is trickery, an illusion. The city does not have that many soldiers."
"Then explain this." And with another wave of his hand he gave the second signal. A volley of arrows shot up into the sky that actually blotted out the morning sun for just a second. Sixty thousand missiles arched up into the morning sky and rained down just on the other side of the stream. The traveler's heart swelled with pride at the precision of the archers, the ones he had trained. A few degrees off and he and the master would have been riddled with he deadly shafts.
"How..." The master began.
"It is not necessary for you to know how only to know that you live now only because I am allowing it."
"You will leave, master, you and the brotherhood and you will not trouble this city for I have things that will make this look like the playing of children. Go, I give you your life."
And so it was that the great city was saved by not by soldiers alone but by its every inhabitant so that now even the butchers and herdsmen walk about with a certain pride and confidence unknown before. The women, however, never cease to remind the male inhabitants that it was their number that had finally tipped the scales. This newfound independence and assertiveness was a side effect that no one, not even the traveler had anticipated. The men assured themselves that in time this would diminish and that eventually things would be as they were before.
The legend of the traveler and his deliverance of the great city grew with each passing day much to the dismay of the young man. He found the freedom he sought in eventually sitting on the throne he once stood before. He wed the princess and her father gave him the throne as a wedding present. It is said but cannot be proved that from time to time he ventures out of the city to spend a night or two in a neighboring city, disguised as a traveling minstrel, sometimes sleeping in a tavern and sometimes a young chambermaid will claim that she entertained a man that sleeps on a pallet next to the bed in some king's castle. But these are only rumors.
THE END

13

Enter The Traveler

by Frenchy in

ah, gather 'round, ye olde companions, gather 'round the dying light and while we imbibe the last of this good ale and say a fond farewell to this day the french knight will tell you a tale that was told to him whilst he was in a far away land.

i remember not the teller of the tale other than he was one who seemed convinced of the account, perhaps one who witnessed the strange events i am about to recount to you.

here is the tale, judge for yourself.. in the third year of the reign of good king beltheheezar it came to pass that spring at long last sprang upon the countryside and the long, bitter winter which would not be soon forgotten was now a thing of the past.

Frenchy

"A soldier follows the orders of his king." Ahad said firmly.
"You are telling me I should kill your king."
"I am telling you what a soldier should do." He retorted.
"But I cannot do this."
"Then you are a traitor to your own king." Ahad argued.
"When a man is put into a position where any action he takes is a betrayal then it is better to betray one's king than oneself for one can live without a king but not without himself."
"You have a strange way with words, minstrel. So what do I do with you?"
"I am no threat, not anymore."
"Had you told me this the day you arrived I would have had your head and yet now I find that ... You have turned this city and those in it upside down. What are we to do with you?" Ahad rose and as he was leaving, he turned to say: "Do not be too long in telling our king, I hold no secrets from him."
A two hour ride on his favorite horse brought him to Abib who was making the yellow smoke. The meeting did not go the way that he wanted but rather the way he had expected. It was a clear case of betrayal, the master had said. He was no longer a Khali-ti and therefore a renegade, an apostate, a traitor. He had become the sworn enemy of the order. A farewell was said since he and Abib had been friends for many years, a friendship that could no longer exist now that he was an outsider. The ride back to the city was a long one. Troubled thoughts and mixed emotions ravaged his mind.
The king wore a troubled look as he peered down at the young man standing next to Ahad. He rubbed his long, white beard and smoothed it down on his chest. He had heard of the order and of the deadly art they practiced. Time and again alliances had been made with other city-kingdoms to rid the country of them but to no avail. It was said and generally believed that once a man or a city was targeted by the Khali-ti it was of no avail to try to escape the outcome. How much of that was true?
"And so you were sent here to assassinate me and compromise the city." The old king said.
"My order was contracted by one of your enemies for this purpose, yes. The task fell to me."
"You do understand the penalty for a spy and an assassin?"
"I am no longer such. I have renounced my association with the order and I am volunteering my services to you."
"Then that also makes you a traitor to your kind." The old man said.
"If that is how I appear to your eyes then you must do to me accordingly. I became a member of the order of assassins through no choice of my own. I have renounced all association with the order and have therefore constituted myself an enemy of those once my family for the sake of my conscious. If I can be of no assistance to you then all of this was in vain and a man without purpose has no reason to live. "
"Sire, if it is permitted." Ahad spoke and the king nodded.
"If I may be allowed to suggest that his skills are great and..."
"Enough!" The old man bellowed. "It goes against my sense of right and wrong but I must put the safety of this city before all other things. Be gone!"
The king rose from this throne and walked out on the parapet soon to be joined by his daughter. She was in the room when the traveler had confessed and he was sure she would have something to say.
"Are you angry because he came to kill you or because you feel you have lost a son?" She inquired in her girlish way.
He looked at her in amazement and then chuckled. "Am I so transparent?"
"To everyone in the kingdom. Already there are rumors in the streets of our marriage and of you handing over the kingdom to him."
"How is it that..."
"A woman would know so much?" She ventured. "Men talk in front of women as if they don't exist. I know not if it's because they think us deaf or just not able to understand words."
"A mistake I shall never make again." The old man smiled. "Tell me, then, what say you of the young minstrel?"
"I like him." She said and waltzed away.
The next time the king saw the traveler it was in his war room where his advisors and generals had gathered. The king had just finished hearing reports that were quite disturbing, reports that substantiated what the caravan leaders had told him weeks earlier. His old enemy, the king of Cuit had managed to raise a considerable fortune and had hired the Khali-ti to come full force against the great city. Since their first plan had failed due to a traitor in their midst (the king had not yet revealed to anyone else the secret of the young traveler) the Khali-ti felt honor bound to come full force against the city. The king sat speechless as his generals and war counselors debated tactics and strategies. He looked past them at the young man who was looking back at him from across the room. Finally the king raised his hand for silence.
"I call on the young minstrel who has been in our midst for the past few weeks. I understand that in his travels he has had experience with this band of murderers. Can you shed some light on the matter, minstrel?"
And so with those words his majesty had let him know that he had chosen to enlist his aid and keep his identity confidential. He rose from his chair, approached the king and bowed low.
"The khali-ti are a formidable enemy." He began. "They are without peers in their skills as warriors and they are relentless. Ahad tells me that the great city has an army of twenty-five thousand valiant men. The Khali-ti number somewhere near five hundred which means the odds are against the city."
There was a murmur that arose in the room. "You make light of our fighting men, minstrel, you insult us." Someone cried out.
"Not at all, my lord. I am merely pointing out the truth."
"The truth" Someone else bellowed out "Is that with odds of fifty to one, there is no way our army can be defeated."
"Fifty to one are insufficient odds against this enemy, my lords, please believe me."
The king raised his hand again and the noise died down. "Perhaps you could give us a demonstration, young minstrel, of some of this art of theirs that you have picked up that would convince my counselors of the skill of this order." The king said guardedly.
The traveler nodded and reached for his staff and advanced toward the king in a menacing way. All five of his body guards moved as one against him. What followed was nothing less than spectacular although most of the subtlety of the moves were lost on the observers simply because he was so fast. The staff twirled and men fell. Swords were knocked from their hands, knives were dodged, lances were sidestepped and soon others joined the fracas, drawn into the heat of battle. He moved through the mob as if invulnerable, untouchable. Time and again as he was cornered he would vault over his opponents using that most versatile staff. Several of the guards and two of the generals suffered considerable wounds at the hands of their fellows though the traveler himself never once drew blood. The king raised his hand again and the fighting stopped.
He looked about the room at the broken arms and bleeding limbs, the blackened eyes and torn clothing. The traveler was not even breathing hard. There was astonishment in the eyes of all. Never had they experienced such a thing.
"I think our young friend has made his point." The king said. Ahad, who had not joined in the fight was standing close to the king.
"He is a sorcerer, a demon in the form of a man." One cried out.

13

Enter The Traveler

by Frenchy in

ah, gather 'round, ye olde companions, gather 'round the dying light and while we imbibe the last of this good ale and say a fond farewell to this day the french knight will tell you a tale that was told to him whilst he was in a far away land.

i remember not the teller of the tale other than he was one who seemed convinced of the account, perhaps one who witnessed the strange events i am about to recount to you.

here is the tale, judge for yourself.. in the third year of the reign of good king beltheheezar it came to pass that spring at long last sprang upon the countryside and the long, bitter winter which would not be soon forgotten was now a thing of the past.

Frenchy

The king walked him out to one of several balconies overlooking the gardens and for a long time not a word was spoken. Finally, the king spoke.
"I perceive that you are no ordinary man. Ahad thinks your heart is less than pure but then men of his position are by nature always suspicious. When I look into your eyes I see many things, I see purpose and determination but I also see some pain and uncertainty."
"Sire, you are a prophet." The young man said.
The old man laughed. "No, but I am a father and a father can see things in the eyes of the young. It is no magic or working of the gods, it is merely the nature of things. Now tell me, for we are alone here, what is it that troubles you?"
The traveler found himself having to draw upon his discipline to refrain from just spilling out everything to the king, so kindly were his words and voice.
"It is nothing that is not common to all men, your majesty. I wish to see more of the world before I settle down." His next words as well as their tone was chosen very carefully. "I fear that perhaps your majesty will detain me from my quest."
The king laughed again. "Far be it for me to hold you back, young minstrel. No, you need not fear that. You are free to go whenever you wish, not only that but I will provide you with a horse and pack animals, and whatever supplies you may require."
"Why would you do that?" It was question irrelevant to his mission and he regretted it the moment the words emerged.
"You saved my daughter's life. As a father I can never repay you fully for that. I have also heard of the incident of the young boy whom you also saved, and there's the matter of your...let's see what you called it...yes...your sanitation code that is saving the lives of my people. As a king I cannot overlook my indebtedness to you for that."
The words of the king struck deep into his heart and he could find no words. He eventually took his leave of the king and made his way to the stables and chose a horse to his liking. He rode up to the castle gate fully expecting to be turned away or at the very least made to wait while Ahad was consulted but to his surprise, he was merely waved on through. He rode through the city and to one of the city gates where he was stopped by two guards. They asked who he was and then promptly waved him by. Again he was surprised. Two hours later of hard riding and he found Abib waiting where he was supposed to be.
"You are late, young traveler, our employer grows restless."
"Has there ever been an instance where a Khali-ti has broken a contract?" The young traveler asked as he dismounted his steed.
"Yes." The man said with a worried look on his face. "It happens from time to time but it is very rare and never without good reason and the sanction of the master."
"Perhaps this will be one of those times."
The conversation that ensued was not pleasant for either man. At certain times one or both would get angry that the other could not understand the situation. Much deliberation followed and in the end there was still anger and confusion as they parted. The young traveler made his way back to the great city and Abib headed off in another direction.
Time passed as time has a way of doing, days became weeks and weeks became months. All the while the young traveler continued to find favor in the king's eyes. Time and again his counsel proved right and the city prospered for it until everyone knew that it was he that was advising the king and the king's court became fearful of him, perceiving him to be a sorcerer or magician of sorts. Each time the king would offer him a position the traveler would decline it much to the regret of the king for he had become as a son in his eyes and he loved him as he loved his own children. He would continue to do whatever it was that the king asked of him and then refuse all payment for his services.
He sat in his quarters staring out at the rain falling outside. The musty smell of hay was heavy in the air, the stables being right beneath him. He had long since, much to the king's displeasure, asked for his leave from his room in the castle and to be allowed to live here in the stables. Everyone in the city was talking about the wizard that lived with animals and that counseled the king. He was fast becoming a legend much to his displeasure. Each day he would look out of this particular window at the mountainside to the East only to be disappointed. There was knock on the hatch that opened into his loft and he broke off from his meditation to answer it. It was Ahad.
"Good morning...what shall I call you? You are more a counselor or lord than you are a minstrel."
"A lord who sleeps with horses?"
"Your choice, minstrel. I dare say that our king would gladly give you his bed if you would but ask for it."
"His majesty is far too kind to this lowly minstrel."
"Well, minstrel I must say that you are proving to be a great riddle to me. You are no opportunist for you refuse any and all worldly goods offered to you. You cannot be a spy for you never leave the city and you spend all your time in a stable. You are young and yet you possess knowledge far beyond your years. You have won the heart of the king and he is not one easily impressed. You carry no weapons and yet I suspect that no four of the king's finest bodyguards could subdue you."
The young traveler caught something out of the corner of his eye and he turned toward the eastern mountainside. He turned back to Ahad.
"The king told me once that you think my heart less than pure."
"Perhaps I was wrong." The big man said with a softness the young traveler would not have guessed existed.
"You were not wrong, my lord. Look out of my window toward the morning sun and you will see a yellow cloud of smoke. There a man waits for me to report to him that I have fulfilled my mission here."
Ahad's face soured into a worried look.
"I came here to kill your king."
Ahad's hand flew to the hilt of his sword but he stopped there.
"Easy, my big friend. I could no more do that now than I could deny the existence of the sun. I have discovered that my heart now has it's own mindand now there exists a great conflict inside my soul, a war that is tearing me to pieces. How does a man determine his loyalties?"
"As long as you are in this city, minstrel, your loyalty had better be for our king. If I suspect for a moment that it is not, then I'll have your head." There was determination in the tone of his voice.
"For you it is a simple matter. Your one and only job is to protect the king. Let me propose a situation to you and then you tell me what you would do. Suppose that our lord the king were to send you on a mission upon which he obliged you to take an oath that you would travel to a distant land, secure a job with a warring king and then destroy your king's enemy at the first opportunity. What would you do? Once in the other city and with the other king, where would your loyalty be?"
The worried look returned to Ahad's face. "I am loyal to my king and to no one else."
"Suppose you would find the other king to be a wise and generous man, a man deserving to live, a man devoted to his subjects, a man who's death would cause untold suffering for a multitude of people? Would you still kill him?"

44

-WORDS-

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

the views expressed here are my own and i state them as such.

perhaps some will agree with me, for a certainty others will not.

i invite comment and discussion regardless of your viewpoint.

Frenchy

In the majority of the cases, however, the inferences are subtle, especially in the 'campaign literature'. But it's there. Looking back, now, how do we reconcile the quote in the JW brochure about "... we should not be judging one another... He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours" (this statement, you will recall, was in reply to the question: "Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?") with the quote from the 97 Watchtower: "--There is only one religious organization on this earth that has all these marks of true Christianity- Jehovah's Witnesses! (italics theirs)"? How can the latter statement be made without a judgment?
In essence, my evaluation of how this question is being answered is: No, we are not saying that we are the only ones being saved, only that we are the only religion that is truly Christian. So, what is the person to think? You don't need to be a Christian to be saved? On the other hand Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6... The 79 Watchtower 7/1, p. 25 made this statement:

all persons who have a love for the truth are invited to examine this claim that Jehovah's Witnesses really do have the truth

I think this is being done now in a way and on a scale never expected. Note the last two words: "the truth". Exclusivity.
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I look forward to your responses.

44

-WORDS-

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

the views expressed here are my own and i state them as such.

perhaps some will agree with me, for a certainty others will not.

i invite comment and discussion regardless of your viewpoint.

Frenchy

Taking SC at his word, his question was:

Do we as individuals have to belong to the Jehovah's Witness faith to gain salvation?

What does SC mean by the pronoun 'we'? Is it the people who have died before the Society came into existence? Is it those people that will never get a chance to hear the 'good news'? Is it those that are impaired in some way and thus not able to intellectually grasp the requirements of salvation? No to all the above. He means, by that expression, you and I, doesn't he? Do you and I, as individuals, have to belong to the Jehovah's Witness faith to gain salvation? Any and all references to anything other than that is obfuscation of the real question. What the Society teaches about people who have either died before being reached or are incapable of understanding is not germane to the question. They are completely irrelevant to the topic and therefore serve no purpose for the clarification of the issue but rather are a tool of the debater to take the heat off of the real question.
So, let's ask the question. Is it the Society's contention that, once the Great Tribulation has begun, one would have to be a member of that organization, i.e. a Jehovah's Witness, in order to survive it? I believe I have reproduced here such a statement from the Society. 89W, 9/1, p. 19

Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.

A reading of the entire article will show that this was not taken out of context.
As most of you know by now, this was in response to a direct question by Xandit: "How about one clear statement that says anyone who isn't a Witness (that as in card carrying publisher, etc.) won't survive Armageddon." Xandit got his 'one clear statement'. Did he deny that the Watchtower said so? No. Did he say that it was taken out of context? No. Did he, in anyway, elaborate on why this quotation did not satisfy his question? No. Has he presented any 'new light' that changes or modifies that statement made in 1989? No. Then why not acknowledge that this teaching is from the Society? The answer to that question is obvious, debate, not discussion was the intent of what I'm sure he now regrets ever asking.
Now, back to the question I posed about the Society's teaching on salvation as expressed in the second paragraph above. The following has been presented as an argument against what the Society has already been quoted as stating on the matter:

Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?

No. Many millions that have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the "great tribulation," and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; 24:21.—Questions Often Asked by Interested Persons , Jehovah's Witnesses in the Twentieth Century, 1989:29. Is it just me or do you see the dust being kicked up here in this excerpt? Who asked about the 'millions that have lived in...."? I didn't see that question, did you? How about that second sentence, does it really answer the question asked? On the contrary. Look carefully at the implications of that sentence. The key to understanding the 'language' that is being used here is in the phrase "Many...may yet take a stand for truth..." Whoa! We've run across that world before, 'truth'. What is the definition of 'truth'? In the WTS language 'the truth' is 'the Society'. ( see w79 7/1 "Who Really Have the Truth?) Looking closely at the remaining sentences do we see the question answered there? Personally, I see general statements that can be construed in different ways.
Now how does the km, which is not read by the general population, express the Society's view on salvation?

km 4/97, p. 3 -One of the questions that he will be asked during the baptism ceremony is: "Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?" Hence, it is important that he realize he cannot serve God without actively associating with the true Christian congregation.

"...he cannot serve God without actively associating with the true Christian congregation." And where, pray tell, may we find this 'true Christian congregation?

W97 1/15 "What Does God Require of Us? --There is only one religious organization on this earth that has all these marks of true Christianity—Jehovah's Witnesses! ... We have been pulled from the dangerous "waters" of this wicked world into the "lifeboat" of Jehovah's earthly organization[/quote]