Posts by Frenchy

24

Liberal JW's

by Dubby in

jw
friends

i admire the jw's who seem to be not too affected by what the society teaches.

for instance; my brother became a jw when he met his wife, who was born into the wts.

his wife and her family, always seemed to be very gregarious people, and enjoy life very much.

As an elder I heard that quite a bit: "I know it's the truth even though I'm not doing everything I should..." I have trouble with that statement because to truly believe that this (JW) is 'the truth' one has to accept the 'whole body of teachings as explained by the FDS'. The most important part of being a Witness, the very purpose of being a Witness as defined by that 'body of teaching' is going to all your meetings and going out in service regularly. If you don't, you won't make it! How can you truly believe this and not do it? You can't.
These 'weaker ones' have a problem with their faith in the religion although they would never admit it, not a first. To admit a lack of faith in the religion (teachings) would be tantamount to renouncing God himself. This they do not have the stomach for. They are, after all, spiritually weak.
Their spiritual weakness is not, however, their not attending meetings or field service. Those are the 'symptoms' of their weakness and just treating the symptoms does nothing for the sickness. I tried to tell a C.O. this once. He missed the point. (I know, I'm a devil!) Their problem is that they no longer believe regardless of what they say. I find this to be an inescapable conclusion. I'll back up my statement.
I have known a few people (some witnesses, some not) who smoked virtually all their lives and adamatly contended that there was no way they could (or would) stop smoking regardless of the dangers associated with it. One came down with emphezema (wrong spelling I'm sure!) and the others with lung cancer. They stopped smoking. Why? Because all that ranting about 'I can't stop!' or 'I'll smoke even if it kills me!' went out of the window when they perceived the threat to be real. Get it?
Now, here's the really interesting part. They don't believe but that is not to say that they recognize that! Strange? Yes, but true. Give them a lie detector test and they'll pass. To deny their belief is to deny 'the truth'. Think of the implications of this. How can you deny truth? You can't. 'Wait!' you cry, 'That stuff they taught us was not true!'... True enough. But remember that we were all convinced down to our very core that this religion was THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, AND THE ONLY TRUTH Were we not?
Another illustration: A diver cannot come up from a deep dive very fast. It has to be gradual or he gets 'the bends'. Pressure. Same thing with us. We are put under tremendous pressure and when we decide to come up and out...we have to do it slowly.
The 'weak publisher' is the one that does not completely believe. I've seen some of these 'brought back' into the fold only to have them drift out again. In time, if left alone, they become assimilated by 'the world' and lose all their identity as Witnesses. They become ordinary people again. How do they feel then? I truly don't know. Are they now relieved from being under all that pressure? Or is the old indoctrination still there and tormenting them? Some after many, many years come back... others do not.
Why are we here, on these boards? To purge ourselves of it? Perhaps. Or could it be that way down deep inside the indoctrination never really leaves and somewhere buried deep in our psyche is the ever present notion that this still could be the truth? Are we looking for that one argument that will make it all okay again, that will once again establish our faith in 'the truth'? I don't know.

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

67

Purgatory, Limbo or the Twilight Comfort Zone

by SolidSender in

jw
friends

no offence meant but is this place some kind of waystation inhabited by beings neither in nor out of the lie?

this is not a criticism just an observation.

i know it can take time to make up your mind-solidsender

Frenchy

Solid, I don't presume to speak for anyone here and as Seven pointed out, we are a diverse group that has come together here and we have become friends. Most people that I have spoken to here, and on other boards, have admitted that this (the JW faith) is no 'ordinary' religion, not for one who was truly dedicated to it. Being a JW becomes a calling, a lifestyle, a philosophy, a mindset, a purpose in life, a goal, a total and unqualified committment to the virtual exclusion of everything else. All of this is held together by the hope of a world which no sane person could resist from longing for.
VERY few people are able to walk away from this easily. Just remember what a JW is doing when he does walk away. He is turning his back on everything he once believed in. Everything because he once believed that everything that meant anything to him was 'in the truth'.
It's like being awakened suddenly from a deep sleep and coming out of a beautiful dream. At first you just want to go right back to sleep and stay in the dream. It takes a while to realize that it's time to go to work and that the dream, as beautiful as it was, was only a dream. You get up but...somewhere down deep inside of you, way past logic and reasoning, you still long for the dream.
I suppose each exodus is different inasmuch as we are all individuals. My experience in talking to people who have left has given me the impression that most have a difficult time extracating themselves from the dream.
It's a harsh reality out here, I can't say that I care too much for it myself. Jesus said that 'the truth shall set you free'. I always thought that meant that it would bring one joy. If that is indeed the case, then I must be in a transitional stage because the 'truth' that I have found thus far has not done much to bring me happiness. So far, to me personally, the truths that I have learned has been more like Eve's fruit. My eyes are open now and I see, but I don't like what I see...and sometimes I still dream of the garden.

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

5

Daily Text

by BigQuestion in

jw
friends

"put no trust in a friend, have no confidence ina loved one, guard the doors of your mouth from her who lies in your embrace" - micah 7:5, new revised standard version

Frenchy

Sounds like Micah had a few problems with disclosures of confidential matters.

guard the doors of your mouth from her who lies in your embrace

Hey, I like that phrase...!

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

24

Qualified to be elders?

by Andyman in

jw
friends

this is an issue that really bothers me.

the elders are supposed to be looking after the well being of the congregation.

they are supposed to be helping those in need.

Frenchy

Qualifications: This subject has often troubled me. I got this objection from a Catholic priest I once called on out in service. He was likeable man and quite sincere about his beliefs and he took his role as a priest quite seriously. He told me that we take a person off the street, study with that individual for a few weeks or months and then put a Bible in their hands and suddenly they are ministers of God. He then told me of the years he spent studying theology, psychology, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, etc.
I listened patiently for a while and then I stopped him and told him to be careful before going any further. He paused and looked at me rather curiously and then I told him that the complaints he was voicing were very similar to what the religious leaders of Jesus' day levied against HIS followers...unlettered men and all that. I then reminded him that the professed head of his church was a fisherman. He smiled and then we talked about other things.
(Hey, I was very good in field service!)
The Society says that the Bible is what qualifies one on all matters of life (2 Tim 3: 16,27). Sad to say, however, is that when one translates that statement (remember the WTS language. It's looks like English but it's not.)it becomes, The Society is the ultimate source of knowledge and truth on everything. Let's look at the scripture a little more closely.
When Paul wrote this, he wasn't 'writing the Bible'. What he wrote there eventually became incorporated into what we now call the Bible. This is more relevant than one might first realize. Was Paul perhaps saying that 'in his hands' the Scriptures were adequate to handle all matters of life? Every religion in the world disputes this scripture! How? If this were truly believed by all churches, the only literature they would produce would be a song book and a schedule.
Do the Scriptures alone adequately qualify a man (or woman)to be a minister of God? Why then the volumes of books and magazines (and magazines that eventually become a book at the end of the year!) 'explaining' the Word of God? That God's Word has to be explained is yet another topic in itself so I won't go there now. (I bet you're glad to hear that!)
I would like to hear more about what the rest of you think about this. Why is secular training necessary for 'a man of God' to lead his congregation when that 'man' is supposedly qualified by the Bible, 'a book for all times'?

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

18

The Beginning of the End

by SolidSender in

jw
friends

i've got my own opinion on this but i'm very interested to hear from anyone who has viewpoints on what impact they think the internet is going to have on the wtbs say over the next 5 - 10 years.-solidsender

Frenchy

I think that most if not all of us here agree that the internet has been a big factor in many JW's leaving. However, personally, I don't see the WTBS folding. If you look carefully at its history you will see that it is very resilient. There has never been a time when it has not been attacked from without and within and yet it perseveres. The leadership is totally committed. The organization is firmly established world wide. Its pursuit of new recruits is relentless. It has an uncanny ability to rewrite its history and even those who know better believe the rewrite. It has made its members feel like they are part of a global brotherhood. The writing staff is very, very good. Embarrassing mistakes are brushed aside with an ease that makes Clinton look clumsy.
IMHO, the WTS will adapt and survive. They will use their past mistakes as examples of how the 'spirit' has progressively led them out of the darkness and into that ever increasing 'light' that is continually getting brighter as we relentlessly march into these last days in what will remain for all time, the time of the end.
I read somewhere that 90% of what Russell taught is now abandoned if not outright condemned. Think about that for a moment. A religion that is less that is only two generations (the real ones) old and already 90% of their original doctrine has been replaced and yet it grows more and more.
I do predict, however, a new mentality that will develop among witnesses. I see JW's become more like the Catholic which reveres his Pope but still practices birth control with no conscience pangs whatsoever. I see the JW like the Baptist that parades up and down the street protesting the new proposed city ordinance that will allow liquor to be sold and then goes home and gets polluted with the liquor he has hidden there. He, also, has no qualms about it.
What we are looking at here is the outline of what will become more like the 'others' in time. There will still be a few 'stupid' doctrines as it seems that no religion can do without at least two or three of those just for shock value. But those doctrines will be ignored by the masses and only observed by the fanatically devout...just like in all the other faiths.
Well, I'll see you guys and gals later... hope to get your comments on this.

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

13

Quotes for waiting

by Seven in

some of my favorites for you:.

1. why is it that when we talk to god we're said to be praying, but when god talks to us we're.

schizophrenic?lily tomlin.

Frenchy

You girls are too much where are you getting all this stuff?! I'm LMAO!

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

1

Royal law of love or Mosaic law?

by Maxee in

as jehovahs witnesses we see blood as a sacred symbol of life.?

[leviticus 7:26 27][acts 15:28-29].

the majority of friends who have refused blood have done so sometimes in ignorance of what was allowable and why or purely on the trusted word of the faithful and discreet slave.

Frenchy

Well, Maxee I follow your reasoning on the Mosaic Law. But do you understand that the Society's reasoning on this is that the mandate was given to Noah (prior to Mosaic Law) and then there is the troublesome little scripture in Acts.
Perhaps you have considered these things as well but just did not include them in your post. I just wanted to point out that the Society's stand on blood transfusions is not based solely on the Mosaic Law.
There was a thread earlier on this blood thing but I wouldn't mind seeing all the new posters' views on it (and the old ones too!).

Edited by - Frenchy on 18 June 2000 16:23:51

12

Anything better than this?

by Seven in

i'm searching for a site that compares various bible versions with our nwt?

the only one i've found compares 108 different versions including nwt.

if anyone knows of a site better than this one please provide the link.

Frenchy

To Seven:

Nothing worthwhile is easy or cheap! The French Knight

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

13

"Elder's Kids are the Worst?"

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i'm not sure if its my limited perspective, but i have heard the saying "elder's kids are the worst".. from my perspective, the saying appears to have much merrit.

if this is true, why would those who seemingly are raised in the "best possible environment" and who would in theory be raised in harmony with the society's direction (good "spiritual routine" , meetings, service, family study etc) turn out the worst?.

could it be that an elder's schedule is too busy for his family?

Frenchy

Red, I know of a similar situation where an elder's son is gay. I understand that this young man is HIV positive. He lives far away also.
I once had a very firm position on homosexuality. Now, in view of its proliferation, I am not as certain. I certainly don't endorse it or condone it, I'm just not as sure anymore.

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-

12

Anything better than this?

by Seven in

i'm searching for a site that compares various bible versions with our nwt?

the only one i've found compares 108 different versions including nwt.

if anyone knows of a site better than this one please provide the link.

Frenchy

108 Versions and you want better??? Baby, you are hard to please!

-Say what you mean, mean what you say-