Posts by samiam2b

6

Drama or no drama?

by samiam2b in

jw
friends

for those who have kids living with an ex, who continues to promote jw, and whose said kids passively or actively shun you (once in a while or all the time): -what (how much) do you tell your workmates?

-your 'new' family (if you have a post-jw family)?

-the kids?

samiam2b

Thank you for the advice and the links, I had never seen any of those before!

Here is the situation, I'm interested in your thoughts but I will try to make it brief:

Scenario:

-12 and 14 year old dtrs are both now baptised, living with their JW mom in another state. Their mom (my ex) and I both grew up JW, although as adults meeting attendance and service were more or less occasional most of the time. I was emotionally done with the marriage and the religion. Ex did some "fake" suicide stuff, spent a week in a mental hospital, was "cured". She emptied the house when I was at work one day. The next week she took the car I used to get to work and hid it at a JW "friends" house then broke into my new (much smaller studio apt) new place through a window, leaving some belongings... then she gave it back to the bank. (happy happy joy joy)

-When we were separated (working to divorce court) I informed my JW mom that I had a girlfriend (trying to give her the hint that I was getting out of JW-was NOT an affair). Soon my ex knew... and from that moment did not hear from my mom again for a couple of years. We divorced and both moved from the state (to different states). I had to 'bargain' with the ex, DA'd by letter in trade for something (don't remember what now...ha). Younger dtr more interested in seeing dad than the other, continues till today. Psychological issues run in the ex's family and boy does she have issues!

-Now, they are practically best friends with my brothers ex and her PO dad. He and she split years ago after she was baaaddd.... now she is a shining star and my dtrs call her "auntie". My brother hasn't been to a meeting since and is happily remarried, has a child in a christian school, does the holidays, and etc.

-I have visitation rights twice a year. Ex has been in public assistance and low income housing in dangerous area and victim of a break-in. I pay ($$$$) child support that she lived off for the past few years and has just now gotten a job (THAT attitude was the same straw that broke the camels back for our marriage).

Issues:

-14 yo dtr aux pioneered this summer-conveniently unavailable for a visit this summer. She has avoided all christmas break visits. Typical 14 year old girl issues. Goes to great lengths to make sure I get her report cards ($$). She also is very 'self righteous' towards me about anything said or done that she considers to be worldly. I "made" my ex take her for counseling, the ex supposedly couldn't find a real psych doctor so a therapist was used. Dtr didn't want to go and after a couple visits (2 or 3) she was deemed to have no problems according to the ex.

-12 yo dtr recently baptised. She hasn't gone JW on me. She seems fairly stable however, since the split she has gained a lot of weight, substantially. This does effect her and she is self conscious. She has no problem visiting me and even flies alone because of her sister not coming and always gets me her report card also. I've tried to get her mom to see to her physical health, see a nutritionist, pediatrician, trainer, etc all to no avail. No follow-through!

Concerns:

-14yo is going down a path of no return with our relationship become fragile. She went to an orthodontist appt where they told her she needed surgery (her mom was at work so she had a friend drive her)... can you believe that? She was so scared that she immediately called me otherwise she is frequently convenitently too busy for my weekly phone call (normal teen?).

-12yo is going to have major self esteem and health issues. She is very sensitive to any comments about food, choices, nutrition, etc. I am not in a position to properly guide her through this remotely and her mom is not too concerned (even though she is prob 2.5x 'average').

-Mom won't talk to me unless its family business and does not seek a relationship with my new wife or our two little ones. She also won't talk to my brother. She has no prob talking to my sister-who is living in sin-but has not come outright and told her so.

So now that you know my life story... what do you think I should do?

Thanks!

samiam2b

17

Playing in the snow in august.

by BrentR in

me, the wife and daughter took off this morning to climb up one of the volcanic spurs of mt rainier.

we started out at sunrise elev 6400 feet.

the weather was not perfect but there was no rain.

samiam2b

Nice! I always find the "real" outdoors to be very refreshing and mentally cleansing. I'm only a couple thousand miles away now so please enjoy it for me. Cheers samiam2b

6

Drama or no drama?

by samiam2b in

jw
friends

for those who have kids living with an ex, who continues to promote jw, and whose said kids passively or actively shun you (once in a while or all the time): -what (how much) do you tell your workmates?

-your 'new' family (if you have a post-jw family)?

-the kids?

samiam2b

For those who have kids living with an ex, who continues to promote JW, and whose said kids passively or actively shun you (once in a while or all the time): -What (how much) do you tell your workmates? -Your 'new' family (if you have a post-JW family)? -Yourself? -The ex? -The kids? -The court?

49

How The Organization Hooks You With "Privileges"

by minimus in

jw
friends

right from the beginning, you are bombarded with others telling you what a "privilege" it is to "be used" in the organization.

especially if you're a male, it is easy to get hooked by the elder's lines.....for example, a male is given the "privilege" of "handling the microphones" if they put in enough time in the ministry and they aren't setting a bad example.

if you're "faithful in what is least", greater privileges await you.

samiam2b

Learning2Fly: In small congregations women are allowed to handle "priveleges" when no qualified brothers are there. It is odd to see a sister handling a microphone or even saying a prayer!

49

How The Organization Hooks You With "Privileges"

by minimus in

jw
friends

right from the beginning, you are bombarded with others telling you what a "privilege" it is to "be used" in the organization.

especially if you're a male, it is easy to get hooked by the elder's lines.....for example, a male is given the "privilege" of "handling the microphones" if they put in enough time in the ministry and they aren't setting a bad example.

if you're "faithful in what is least", greater privileges await you.

samiam2b

Oh don't I know!

1. Moved to a small town. Congregation had 18 people in it, the territory was about 2 hours by 2 hours drive. I drove an hour to get to the hall. Frequently I was the only "brother" there besides the PO. Although not worthy of the "priveleges" when the whole crew was there, somehow I was worthy when they weren't. It was quite a dance, playing the music, saying the prayer, doing the microphones, and handing out literature at the meeting....

2. At one point I thought it was funny there was a minimum hour requirement to do stuff. I would go out for a few hours a month for real and just add time to the sheet to get over the national average and make up some magazine placements. Wait, maybe they figured it out because the elders just told me I needed to do more. So I did. I added a couple more hours, RVs, and placements. To do this successfully though I had to be sure to get the most rural territories, where you would spend more than an hour just driving TO the place. Let one of the zealots make a call in town first though, otherwise you couldn't count the time. Go to all five houses in that territory (takes a couple hours to do that)... and spend another couple hours driving home. Bingo!

3. Some JW "friends" asked me to fix their computer when they went out of town. I don't remember what was wrong but in the process of fixing it I discovered they had been emailing about ME to someone I didn't even know... talking smack! Not sure what to do about that find but knowing that I had to have "proof", I printed the email. When they came back and we chatted, I mentioned the find (not the print). They called a meeting with the PO for me reading their email. Dumbasses! They asked me to fix their email and it didn't take snooping to find! They tried to discredit me with the elders over invading their privacy until I mentioned the printed copy of the email. So I got in trouble for printing a copy, in trouble for "stealing" their paper! I was reproved and they made him an elder. Sheesh...

4. I was dirt poor, as in (minimal) food stamps, public insurance for my kids, and I could only afford to eat one meal a day to preserve food for the wife and kids. I worked full-time and in the tiny town there were no other jobs. This town was one that traveling speakers had to go through in order to get to the KH from where most of them lived. The much more well to-do JWs were either always going to other halls to give talks or had some excuse for not feeding the speaker. Wanting to be hospitable, I invited them to our house for lunch. It wasn't much, could be PB&J and water... but it was literally all I could do. In fact, it meant that I had to sacrifice a meal during the week to pull it off. After a while I think the word got out that our cong was barely feeding the speakers... and the elders stepped up. I did not get anything for that, chaps my ass....

Sorry for ranting but I had 10 years of promises of "priveleges" and watched hypocrisy in action on a weekly basis in some cases affecting me or my family in very personal ways.

samiam2b

20

Where are YOU on the NEEDS Pyramid?

by lonelysheep in

jgnat's statement here reminded me of the needs pyramid, and my placement on it as a jw potential convert, as well as where i am now.

jgnat: "besides the failure to love their vocation, i think a big problem is that with the witnesses there is only one cause and only one activity.

there is no accommodation for various talents or abilities.

samiam2b

Also, I believe that Maslow's theory was based on individual needs not societal needs. Many have tried to extrapolate this to a society of people (uh, poor word choice?). In order to influence groups of people you need to address everyone's individual place on the pyramid. Can you imagine a car salesman whose job it was to sell a car to a group of 100 people at the same time? How many do you think would buy? How would the salesman know when to give the final pitch? JW's specifically look for those with "spiritual hunger" or thirst or whatever that was to preach to... that describes individuals who are at a specific part of the pyramid, no? By focusing the recruitment effort at that, the results will be better than a generalized approach (rifle versus shotgun). Retaining converts is a completely different issue. Once you are meeting the needs of that particular shelf, you become a lifeline to the individual... they will rely on you to continue that. It is very similar to how our bodies are affected by meds/drugs, particularly the dopamine receptors make us feel good so that we develop a physiological craving for more. Only when the difficulties of remaining overcome our individual perceived benefits of staying do we become strong enough to break away. Some will find something else to replace that fulfillment (still hungry/thirsty or illicit activities)... some already have even before leaving (complacent JWs). Finally, I would be curious to know how you would categorize yourself after leaving... as the former or the latter? Cheers samiam2b

31

Bethel Tour-long sorry

by samiam2b in

i'm new as a member but have watched the site for a while.

one of my kids, who lives in another part of the country, came for a summer visit from another state and asked to go on a bethel tour.

she lives with her jw mother and is surrounded by jws and they even baptized her recently.

samiam2b

oops, was I supposed to give a tip? They didn't have that on the website either. ;-) Should I bump my other questions to a new subject??

31

Bethel Tour-long sorry

by samiam2b in

i'm new as a member but have watched the site for a while.

one of my kids, who lives in another part of the country, came for a summer visit from another state and asked to go on a bethel tour.

she lives with her jw mother and is surrounded by jws and they even baptized her recently.

samiam2b

Maybe this requires a new subject line but here it goes: in my employment I have done quite a bit of ghost writing (ha, maybe pun is intended here), which has led me to wonder about the ghost writings of the bethelites and GB. How exactly does the GB direct the writing/doctrine development? I have no clue and wonder because people in positions in bureaucracies are often "blamed" for things that they do not directly do but are blamed because they represent a bureaucracy with their titles (oh wait, the GB have honored titles and are highly regarded men?). One of the posters we were shown on the tour talked about six committees, each having a GB member assigned. One committee has the responsibility of the writing of talks/conventions/books/mags/etc. Does the GB write an outline, a topic, a first rough draft, or any other material that is taken by trained editors to be edited for spelling and grammar prior to printing?? or is it bethelites who pass the SAT test equivalent that are just given free reign to write stuff? maybe it is the circuit overseers who the major policy writing because they know what the people on the ground will tolerate or "need"? I have always wondered about this and never heard anything conclusive. Even the president doesn't write his speeches, senators don't write bills they sponsor them, and many of the other laws we are subject to are written by either special interest groups or bureaucrats not the elected officials. Hows does the WTS do it? and what if another bethel (the people, not the building) disagreed with points being made, how do they resolve that? -samiam2b

31

Bethel Tour-long sorry

by samiam2b in

i'm new as a member but have watched the site for a while.

one of my kids, who lives in another part of the country, came for a summer visit from another state and asked to go on a bethel tour.

she lives with her jw mother and is surrounded by jws and they even baptized her recently.

samiam2b

Thanks guys... it was all offices. They have acronyms for things but basically the administrative offices are there. The legal office, the public information office, building coordination, assembly coordination, their equivalent to human resources, etc. If you want to see printing work you have to go to Walkill but the guide told us we might not see anything because when they are printing something new they hide it behind black curtains... sheesh!

And yes, other than going up and down the elevator, we only got to see posters. How anticlimactic! Oh wait, she pointed out the residence building a mile away where many of the bethelites live and have to walk to bethel in all weather. WTS plows the walkway for the city. How generous.

31

Bethel Tour-long sorry

by samiam2b in

i'm new as a member but have watched the site for a while.

one of my kids, who lives in another part of the country, came for a summer visit from another state and asked to go on a bethel tour.

she lives with her jw mother and is surrounded by jws and they even baptized her recently.

samiam2b

I'm new as a member but have watched the site for a while.

One of my kids, who lives in another part of the country, came for a summer visit from another state and asked to go on a Bethel Tour. She lives with her JW mother and is surrounded by Jws and they even baptized her recently. Her sister couldn't come to visit me this summer because "she is pioneering" so I thought a bethel tour would be a good idea. We couldn't find anything on the website about tours, like where they are, where to park, how to get there, etc. They don't even have a phone number to call on the website. Sure seems odd since I was told all my childhood how special bethel was and how all good witness boys should go there.

I decided to get married at 18 to avoid sinning rather than bethel... although that didn't exactly work (shhh, my ex is still a JW and has never admitted to it!).

We called information for a telephone number to get the hours and used Google to see what all the tour companies had to say. My daughter was excited but I was apprehensive wondering if they had some way of figuring out who I was. The alarm bells didn't ring when I walked in... then approaching the counter I told the person sitting there we were hoping for a tour. He looked us over, asked who we were, and asked about my daughter. I thought for sure that was going to be it, the ninja elders would grab me and take me into a back interogation room. That didn't happen but may be because I avoided giving the spelling of my name. We got our own private tour away from all the dressed up people...

When my daughter went to the bathroom while waiting for a tourguide, the greeter called me over and said, "Brother samiam2b, we normally would expect people to be dressed like they are going to meeting but since your daughter is visiting from out of town, it will be ok". Gee, golly, thanks "brother". I wonder why he assumed I was a brother, believe me I did not give any sign of it... The message was recieved loud and clear, only then did I notice everyone else had ties and dresses on. We (small group) had shorts and tshirts like tourists. Nothing like that to make you feel uncomfortable, I could've walked out right then if it weren't for my daughter.

I have toured a lot of museums and sites of interest but never was I as disappointed in a tour as the Bethel. Our guide was nice enough, as she told us several times that it was an honor for her to be there since they don't let many single sisters go... but anything doctrine related was said as a "they believe" rather than "we". I wonder how much training and programming goes on to prepare tour guides, do they have a tour guide school like KMS? The tour walked us around the hallways to look at posters of all the work happening around the world... a KH build in Brazil, a printing press in Germany, lots of smiling portraits used for WT publications, etc.

I did notice outside there were several groups of "hotty" bethel girls greeting the bethel boys walking on the sidewalk. I found that somewhat humorous for some reason... maybe because the vow of celibacy is so unrealistic with young attractive people who are far away from home but need constant robotic mind control to keep them inline.

Overall it was the most non-tour of a tour I had ever seen.... the time spent in Manhattan and Time Square was a lot more fun for all of us. ;-)

I'm not sure what the point of my post is... other than that was the most time spent around JWs in the last 8 years or so and it was very wierd to hear them talk, having cleared my head of the lingo that they use in such a forced anthropological way. I'm so burned on religion that my mind blocks out all thoughts/questions/concepts having any ties to JW stuff. I'm not sure if that would be considered better or worse to them than if I became a catholic or lutheran or something...

Finally, I'm not an activist and just mind my own business. I made up my mind for myself and think others should do the same. Just posting this message though probably paints me as apostate, which is a big risk considering my daughters nieve young minds.

Cheers

-samiam2b