Posts by Tornintwo

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

Tornintwo

Thanks for all the responses, some pure conjecture of course...

the point Lisa Rose and others make about lack of transparency is very thought provoking though...why aren't they transparent? why so many different corporations etc?

I knew of an affinity fraud by a 'brother' who fleeced a lot of witnesses of their life savings before being disfellowshipped thankfully, but, he was never prosecuted despite various attempts. Why? Because he had lots bank accounts and companies in different countries, the police couldn't track all the money successfully and prove fraud, they didn't have the resources and jurisdiction wasn't certain....sound familiar?

what is alarming is that there can be any legal charity which isn't fully transparent about its finances

72

My RC hearing brought forward. Will be in two weeks

by umbertoecho in

through this forum of wonderful freaks, i have met someone who is coming with me to my hearing.

initially i was slated for next year, but will be attending in two weeks time.

all is in place from travel vouchers, support, where to go ............very efficient and well done.

Tornintwo

Umberto, it's great to have you back I love your posts. Well done, you are so brave. There are great suggestions on here already, re background checks, mandatory reporting, etc. also no known abuser should EVER be allowed d2d or privileges.

I really don't see it as unreasonable to look at their tax exempt status considering their lack of protection for victims, but protection of the perpetrators and their disfellowshipping and shunning policies, particularly in families. We are talking about an organisation that in some cases, has ignored abuse victims and left them and other children in danger of further abuse, protected and even promoted the abuser, refused to report to the authorities, and then when the child grows up and understandably leaves the religion, subjected such child to institutional shunning even from family.

Not to mention general shunning, discouragement of higher education, disdain for non witnesses, lack of genuine charitable works etc. etc.

How can they justify charitable Status?

one more suggestion, a national database online where any householder can register their desire not to be called on by witnesses

31

Still feel weird about things....

by FeelingFree in

so i'm loving the fact that my little one gets to be a "normal" child and take part in everything at school.

however i still have that stupid niggling in the back of my head that she shouldn't be doing it and it's wrong etc.

at the moment she is rehearsing for the nativity play and keeps singing the songs at home (she is going to be an angel!

Tornintwo

HI feeling free, your experience resonates so much with me! It's like it's great to be free but there is this nagging doubt pulling you back into the fear and guilt. Xanthippes post has it spot on I am sure, cult programming fades over time.

i have teens and a toddler, I am so happy because my older girl is doing a Xmas play for her drama course and both the older ones are in a concert with their music school, my little one is making Xmas cards in nursery, for the first time we don't have to explain their non-involvement to teachers and my kids don't feel left out and weird! For me Xmas isn't about Jesus, it's too commercial, but the community and family part is great fun!

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

Tornintwo

I am intrigued to know if there Is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the Jehovah's Witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?

whilst I disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, I don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top. Yes you could say that the GB are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving Bentleys.

I suspect it's more of a power trip for them than a wealth trip. The thought of 8million people hanging on your every word must be enticing for them, and they probably believe their own hype that they are gods chosen ones, christs brothers etc... Ray Franz never mentioned financial issues in his books and I would have thought he had the perfect opportunity to highlight any corruption of that type.

Whilst I think there's better ways of spending millions of charitable donations than on a new state of the art headquarters, I doubt there's anyone fleecing, surely if there was they would have taken the money and run before they had to stop charging for the books, or before the publishing downturn....

But if you have evidence to the contrary I for one would love to hear it....?!?

28

Things WT Would Have To Do To Be An Acceptable Religion

by JW_Rogue in

drop shunning or at least drop shunning among family members.

make blood transfusions a conscience matter, no more hlc.

drop the two witness rule, mandatory reporting of child abuse, no privileges for offenders.

Tornintwo

Great thread...I agree with rogues original list and finkelsteins additons...

Possibly I'm duplicating but:

drop all titles and pressure to 'do more'

no more star chamber judicial proceedings

admit you have been 'presumptuous' and that you are not the one true channel, your just trying like all the other Christians in the earth....

stop being masters of our faith in all manner of minutiae

oh and BTW, quite a few Protestant religions believe in paradise earth 'in the end', in the recreation and reconciliation to God...was a shocker to me too.

25

The new brchoure

by Sabin in

the gestapo body, brought out a brochure, i believe it was called return to jehovah.

in it they gave 3 reasons why some-one left the borganization.

if i remember 1 was because the person is angry at some one in the cong, or something along those lines.

Tornintwo

Great post and answers. Divergent, I think you got it spot on. The brochure does nothing to address the real issues and questions that doubters and leavers have, they never look at themselves or their terrible track record. Especially in regard to the hurt feelings aspect, all of the blame is put on the victim for taking it wrong, not being spiritual enough to cope with it, not being forgiving, not 'leaving it with jehovah'. They never address the fact that there are so many bullying, manipulative, nasty, power tripping 'shepherds' in this organisation stumbling the meek ones left, right and center. The abuser analogy is right.

23

"Don't think too much...."

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

a couple of middle aged jw sisters dropped round unannounced the other day, they were only being kind i suppose, after some awkward silences i voiced a couple of my issues with the religion, (the safe ones), sort of an explanation as to why i'm no longer attending, namely: everyone else will die, lack of support for young ones, mistreatment/judgementalism by prominent ones who get away with it because 'they're imperfect and we have to wait on jehovah' etc.

well, after sympathizing and telling me horror stories about awful elders and their own kids' issues in the past (how some left the truth, had bitter divorces from fellow witnesses etc) they then begged me to 'come back to jehovah', 'he misses me' apparently.

finally, the more pushy one summed it up with 'you're thinking too much, it's not good for you', 'some issues you just have to put in a drawer and forget about....'.. hmm nice reasoning sisters, theocratic school training at its finest!

Tornintwo

A couple of middle aged jw sisters dropped round unannounced the other day, they were only being kind I suppose, after some awkward silences I voiced a couple of my issues with the religion, (the safe ones), sort of an explanation as to why I'm no longer attending, namely: everyone else will die, lack of support for young ones, mistreatment/judgementalism by prominent ones who get away with it because 'they're imperfect and we have to wait on jehovah' etc. Well, after sympathizing and telling me horror stories about awful elders and their own kids' issues in the past (how some left the truth, had bitter divorces from fellow witnesses etc) they then begged me to 'come back to Jehovah', 'he misses me' apparently. Finally, the more pushy one summed it up with 'you're thinking too much, it's not good for you', 'some issues you just have to put in a drawer and forget about....'.

hmm nice reasoning sisters, theocratic school training at its finest! Jehovah's witnesses, please leave your brain at the door.....

100

10 Years out of the JW Organization- What I've Learned ( For what it's Worth)

by flipper in

jw
friends

10 years ago i stopped attending jehovah's witness meetings for good.

walked out of the kingdom hall cold turkey never to return based on injustices i observed among others and myself at the hands of elders giving out not god's counsel but personal opinions as counsel .

some of them weren't even giving out wt society counsel- just personal opinions.

Tornintwo

Ding, well said, I remember when I first learned women weren't allowed to hold the microphones, whaaaat!!! Now why on earth did I not run out of the Kingdom Hall that day screaming 'cult, cult'!? Could have saved me 25 years of crappy decisions.

100

10 Years out of the JW Organization- What I've Learned ( For what it's Worth)

by flipper in

jw
friends

10 years ago i stopped attending jehovah's witness meetings for good.

walked out of the kingdom hall cold turkey never to return based on injustices i observed among others and myself at the hands of elders giving out not god's counsel but personal opinions as counsel .

some of them weren't even giving out wt society counsel- just personal opinions.

Tornintwo

Hey flipper and otow, faders and lurkers, I've walked away cold turkey and I have to say with every day the fog is clearing more. No repercussions yet, although my jw husband is committed to protecting me and my daughter from such so we're lucky, he isn't the spiteful 'run to the elders' type. My teenage daughter has followed me out. I agree, it gave her the option, she didn't have to keep trying to please her parents and she could admit to herself that she wanted unlimited friendships, extracurricular activities, celebrations, sleep ins at the weekend, higher education and a basic normal life! Who wouldn't? To parents out there I say lead by example.

68

So ... Russia and Nato at war? Should we be worried?

by Simon in

it seems unbelievable but turkey (a nato member state) shooting down a russian jet fighter on their syrian border seems to be "meh" news and no one is too bothered about it too much.. the world seems a bit upside down right now.

i don't think a lot of countries really know who the hell they are fighting and who is and isn't on their side in it all and really what is going on.. smaller incidents than this have led to major conflicts in the past but hopefully calm heads will prevail.

china shot down a us spy plane years ago and the world survived and forgot about it so things will move on i'm sure.. i'm guessing the price turkey pays for their gas supply from russia will be going up soon though.. man, that republican primary is sucking all the news attention from the room.

Tornintwo

This whole situation in Syria makes you wonder why Assad won't put his hands up and say 'I messed up, let someone else have a try'...

In my dreamworld I imagine a solution where Assad calls for free democratic elections in say a year's time, in which he declares he will NOT run, declare a ceasefire and bring the peacekeepers in and a temporary government, establish safe zones for refugees. The genuine parties should want to take part in the political process so then the only ones left fighting should be the nutty psychopath ISIS etc which should then be easier to deal with (with the other two parties on ceasefire). Okay I am sure this is too simplistic and idealistic but maybe it could work....

What stands in the way of this?.... ASSAD will never step down because this conflict is about GAS supplies to Europe. Russia doesn't want to lose it's monopoly on gas to Qatar etc who want to lay pipelines through Syria, Assad won't allow the pipelines, any Western backed government would, Russia can't let that happen....