Welcome, what a great post. Don't feel bad, congratulate yourself for having the strength of mind to wake up from oppressive mind control and help your loved ones do the same xx
Tornintwo
JoinedPosts by Tornintwo
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Hello, this is my first post
by noralee inhello, this is my first post, i would like to introduce myself and say thank you to every one on this forum, you have been a lifeline to me these last few years.. i had been a jw for 30 years when i walked away a few years ago disgusted by the treatment victims of child abuse, domestic abuse and rape receive from the wtbts.. at first i thought it was a local problem, elders personal opinions, the way they handled the situations, imperfect men etc., until i checked out jehovahs witnesses and child abuse/domestic abuse online.
that's when i realized they had the same modus operandi worldwide.
that led me here, tbuo this forum, and then to crisis of conscience, jw facts, watchtower documents, jw survey, old watchtower literature and cd s, reading a couple of steve hassans books, and more recently exiting the jw cult.. the feelings of shock, betrayal, anger at the wtbts, angry with myself for being so gullible, depression, reflection, loneliness, have taken their toll.
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When does it end? My marriage is 90% great for the most part, except when it come to this cult
by goingthruthemotions ini know marriage is tough and it takes work on both parts.
we have been together for 27 years.
the last eight have been involved with this cult.
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Tornintwo
Sorry for you.....I'm in a 'divided' home too, it sucks.
Thankfully he's mellowed a lot from the controlling, abusive jw husband he was, ironically I think me and the kids leaving the religion almost took the pressure off him a bit. He no longer has anything to do with the kids discipline at all, they won't take it from him, so he doesn't have to worry about trying to control them in the 'right' way according to jw rules. Also he is not in the running for privileges now we've all left, so he no longer has to try to reach out and agonise about what he is doing wrong and why he is being held back (he was an m.s. on and off but could never kiss-ass, his relationship with the hierarchy in the org put terrible strain on our marriage for years). The whole thing, his son refusing to speak to him, his precious good girl turning her back on the religion, etc has humbled him, he's trying to be kinder, I almost think he's trying to 'win me without a word'
But, like you it drives me crazy that he won't think critically about the org, he will never question it, despite the fact he's been treated like crap. He is hardly ever his authentic self, for example with the kids, he wouldn't watch my daughter in her first singing concert because it was at Xmas, he won't give them any lifts anywhere because they are meeting 'wordly friends' and it would 'compromise' him. So he's losing his relationship with both of them now. I swear I could show him irrefutable facts that the GB were child murderers and he wouldn't believe it.
You have to feel sorry for them really, fully mind controlled, they are missing out on a lot of good in life for the sake of 7 men in Brooklyn.
My advice is just lIve your life, if she gives you the silent treatment completely ignore it, go out and do something fun with your kids, come back and give her a big smile and offer her a cup of tea or something, like nothing whatsoever is wrong. Water off a ducks back..
For me he goes to the meeting, I sit on the couch with a glass of wine watching my favourite series, he goes on the ministry, I take my baby to soft play and chat with other mums. He sits around praying for daily needs, I go out and get a job. If he doesn't keep up, me and the kids will leave him behind, one way or another.
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Elders, oh my God what a bunch of losers!
by Crazyguy inok i don't mean to put all of them into just one box so to speak, their are some that are smart successful etc.
but my god most of them are just wasted space, ignorant, no drive, horrible jobs, make nothing for income and the only thing in life they have going for them is this title.
no wonder so many will not wake up and hold on to this stupid cult, it's all they have.
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Tornintwo
OP a bit harsh, but it's true I've met some very genuine, loving and compassionate elders, unfortunately I can count them on one hand after 25 years. Just reading "In Search of Christian freedom", and Ray has some very insightful comments re different types of elders and the control they are under,it's long but worth a read for anyone interested in this subject:
But people who have gained a degree of success in the secular world may simply be reluctant to detach themselves from an or ganization that is fairly extensive, has organizational strength and numbers. They perhaps feel a desire to employ in a religious context the same secular abilities that gained them success in the world, or perhaps donate or loan funds and, as a result, experience a more intimate, privileged relationship with men in authority. I believe the Witness religion, along with some others, lends itself notably to those of such inclination. This was not so much the case in its early history but is so today. The organization’s intense focus on works, on expansion, on big gatherings, big projects, provides an ambience in which those with secular administrative experience and preferences can shine. In a larger religion they might be “small frogs in a large pond,” as the saying goes. The Watch Tower organization is small enough for them to make an impact, gain prominence, and yet large enough that elevation therein can give them an added sense of personal importance. They may be men with insight, who are capable of seeing the flawed nature of the organizational teachings and policies, the variance between these and the teachings of Christ and of Scripture. They may even feel, per- haps cautiously express, their concern about this. Often they can say more than others, and express their thoughts to men in authority, such as members of the Governing Body, particularly if they are known to give strong financial support to the organization. I know men who have done this. In general they have experienced disappointment at seeing that their words often had little effect, did not receive the same kind of reception that their money gifts received.
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Yet such flattery and efforts to impress men in au- thority are remarkably common within the Witness organization, and concern for gaining or maintaining organizational favor and position is often obvious in the conduct of a considerable percentage of elders and traveling representatives. In large measure it is such concern for position that gives the organization the degree of power and control over them that it has. Because of it men will even enforce policies that they believe are wrong in order to retain organizational favor. They do this at the cost of their freedom and moral integrity.
These motivating factors are not restricted to men of secular success and ability. They often apply with equal force to those of far more humble background, even the underprivileged. The Watch Tower’s organizational arrangement may allow these to achieve a marked elevation in social status by virtue of diligence in meet- ing organizational goals, zeal in the program of activity; the sheer force of the hours they report. All of this may pave the way to even- tual eldership. They may now deliver lengthy talks before audi- ences of a hundred or more persons, whereas without the official position they hold they might find it difficult to get a dozen per- sons to listen to them for any period of time. Like those of more impressive background, these may feel hesitant to do anything or say anything that might jeopardize the status they now enjoy.
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I have doubts... can you help me??- A new idea
by HowTheBibleWasCreated ini have been perplexed as to how to brung my wife out of jws and to exit the religion... but i had an idea last night.
i know that elders will legitimantly meet with brothers who have doubts and encourage them... not df them .. this is a sheperding call etc.. thus since my wife knows i have doubt s i could say: i want to have two brother over to discuss this ... she will agree.... of course i will hit these guys with biblical textual issues, an biology to where they are stunned and still ask... "so brothers... can you solve this conflict...?".
in this case they will not think of me as an apostate but may question their own beliefs... .
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Tornintwo
I had a c.o. Call on me during my initial doubting phase and managed to get quite a few issues discussed, in front of my husband, by coming across as 'confused and doubting" rather than rebellious. I definitely disturbed my husband with some things I said about child abuse and even the elder showed signs of c.d. The c.o wasn't phased at all, I got the impression he knew it all already. There is the account here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/354370001/doubts-shunning-shepherding-call?page=1&size=10I threw a lot more at my husband the UN, Malawi/Mexico, the ARC. Until he shut his ears and told me he absolutely didn't want to hear anymore because it disturbed him and effected his faith. I realised he wants and needs this religion. He came to it in a very dark time in his life and I honestly think he will never, ever leave it. There are some like that we have to accept, agree to disagree and work round it as best as we can.
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Video: 607 & 1914 Why These Dates Matter to Jehovah's Witnesses
by LevelThePlayingField inthis is a great video.
i think it's his best work so far.
everything you ever wanted to know about 607 in 30 minutes.
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Tornintwo
Bumping this thread because the video is really very good and as many as poss should see it. Just makes me realize how utterly bonkers the whole thing was and wonder why I ever swallowed it! Never mind the fact it's based on a false date discredited by historians.
There's is an interesting side point made in the comments also which I'd never thought about. I always believed the dragon was hurled down with great anger and as a result WWI broke out. But if it was October 1914 when Jesus was enthroned and war broke out in heaven, then dragon was hurled down (presumably after the heavenly war of undetermined duration) then how come WWI started in July?
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Encounter with J.W's at wittnessing kart.
by karter inme-you allow pedophiles to go d2d and into peoples houses even when they have children.. j.w-no we don't.. me-the one that interfered with a relative of mine does and another i know who raped his sister does in fact he's an elder.. j.w-we cant stop them going d2d.. me- so now your saying they do go d2d you can't stop them,no you don't want to!.
j.w-it happens in all religions.. me- so that justifies sending pedo's into strangers houses.how would you like it if a pedo came to your place and you didn't know.. j.w- it happened to my mother and if he came to my place it knock him out.. me - but you have no problem with anyone from your church going to peoples houses even if they are a pedo.. we argued around in circles with him saying the elders may not know and me saying well i told them and so did the victim and he admitted to it ,then i told him about the r.c in australia and he said that could be anyone claiming to be a j.w could be on the stand ( by this time he was getting desperate)the i said like jeffery jackson?.
i told them to look it up on you tube.. i gave then the names and congro's the 2 pedo's are in and said i'd come back next week and see if they had checked it out.the lady's body language said she knew the elder that raped his sister as they are a well know family they were in the year book a few years ago.. stand by for next week.. karter.
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Tornintwo
Great experience....would love to see it reenacted at the next jw assembly ha ha ha -
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Beards
by HowTheBibleWasCreated ini have a beard.
i spend a month on vacation with no worry from the congregation overseas of course.
i grew a full beard now and with glasses i finally have posted my picture on facebook og me... next to half life 2 cover showing i look like gordan freeman lol.
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Tornintwo
My daughter has/had a 19 year old witness friend in UK, a few months ago she told me he was really down because he'd been pulled into the back room and counseled about his new beard. He was depressed about it because it had taken him months to grow and he liked it and they'd made him feel like crap. I was furious. This is a young boy who despite being smart had given up the chance of higher education, was auxiliary pioneering and reaching out, was keeping himself 'chaste' and spending way to much time at home for a kid his age, and instead of commending him they pick at him about his one way of expressing his individuality. Aaaaggggghhhh, their lack of nurturing for young people makes me crazy. -
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The Pain of Coming to a Decision
by daniel-p init's been at least a couple years since i've posted anything on here, and much longer than that since when i was active.
ten years ago i first came here all in turmoil over my disillusionment of my beliefs.
i've been through lots of ups and downs since then.
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Tornintwo
I'm sorry you are in such a difficult place but Your last paragraph is very positive and decisive. You haven't given up hope, but you've decided you want no part with the religion. Now act on those decisions.
I was only a few months in the 'indecisive' phase of being half in half out and looking back it was the most painful time emotionally and mentally. I don't know how some keep that going for years. It's also been much easier on my husband also now I've made the decision and made it clear to him now I feel. I'm no longer a JW, he is. But now he knows where he stands. I'm feeling much stronger and happier now I've walked away and I am proud to want to live a normal life, he is disappointed but adjusting.
With my kids, I set the example and my older one who was still in followed me out shortly after. With my little one, I let her do all the celebration stuff at her nursery. I made it clear to him I would not allow him to speak to the teachers and tell them she doesn't do Xmas. I gave her a birthday and she went to her first party for someone else's a couple of weeks ago. My older kids have told me being left out of these things as we raised them was very painful for them. He knows not to mess with me on the these things as I am much stronger and firmer with him about what I will put up with. Having said that, he prays with our little one, reads her bible stories and I let him take her on a Sunday. But she's only 2 so I might have to rethink some of these things in the future.
The main thing is she will never have her associations restricted in any way, she will always be a part of things at school, extracurricular activities, education etc.. Trust me I've got 2 teenagers who've left the organization, when it comes to those years, given the choice, the rule-bound religion has no chance.
Do what YOU want, teach your kids by example, I agree with others that your wife is looking to you to ask her to leave the org.. She probably can't cope with the guilt of that decision.
Why not say to her that trying to fulfil the demands of this relegion of your parents has made you depressed and unhappy and you haven't been able to be your true self, that you don't want the same for your kids. Tell her from now on you want you and your kids to have a normal life, ask her if she will try it with you for a few months, to see if she can see a difference in your happiness. Tell her you don't think a loving God would be angry at a man for trying to improve his life and his mental health for him and his family. If she won't go along with it , you do it anyway, and go out and have fun with your kids as much as possible.
P.s. A tip on this, soft play centers are a great place to take your young kids to get rid of some of their energy & socialize, you can meet other parents too to make friends outside the org. I've got chatting to a few parents at our local one and as a result we got invited to our first birthday party. My 2 year old LOVED it, dancing, laughing, singing happy birthday and eating cake. Wow it feels great to be part of the real world!
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merry xmas
by Sabin init has just turned 12 o'clock in n.s.w, australia, is i am just saying merry christmas to all you on the forum & i hope you all happy a happy new year.
big hugs all round.
sabin.
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Tornintwo
Happy Xmas!
doesnt seem such a bad thing to me, people round here being nice to eachother, spending time with family & friends, giving to charity, I chose some thoughtful pressies for my mum and dad and can't wait to open mine....
spent the last 22 years being taught it was some materialistic, drunken sex orgy of paganism!
Either way you like it....Merry Xmas!
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Latest, SHOCKING JW Paedophile case.
by Phizzy inhttp://www.stratford-herald.com/45973-jehovahs-witness-jail...
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Tornintwo
Absolutely horrific, it sounds like she was assaulted sexually also, maybe if the parents had reported it at the time and let the hospital look into it he would be away for a longer time, and would have served his sentence a long time ago. It's a miracle he didn't carry on to kill someone. How many kids was he able to be around as a jw? .Every time I brought this kind of stuff up to an elder I was told, 'we are told we can report it if we want to' and 'we encourage the victim/parents to report' but time and time again the facts prove otherwise, 'protect Jehovahs name', even if it does put innocent children at risk. Now how is this reflecting on the precious name of this presumptuous organisation which gave themselves Jehovahs name.
The whole things is sick and twisted and the parents shockingly negligent.