Posts by Tornintwo

29

My fade might well start today.

by StarTrekAngel in

many here whom have read my previous posts know more or less my situation.

wife is not hardcore but we still bump heads from time to time.

if it wasn't for this cult, and while it was not an issue, we had an almost perfect marriage.

Tornintwo

Sorry therapy did not go as you thought it would, but bear in mind that most therapists try to gain the trust of their clients in the early sessions and hold back from challenging their views until that trust is established.

with regard to the children, I've noticed a lot of posters saying once they were out their children followed suit, that's been the case with my teenage daughter who until recently appeared to be very enthusiastic about the religion. After all, most kids just want to fit in and be accepted, given the choice between being 'normal' with birthday parties, Xmas etc, freedom to choose friends and sleep in at the weekend, compared to life as a jw, most will choose the normal option. (It seems harder when the kids are older in their 20s and have gone through all the pier pressure stuff and committed to the org, married a dub etc.. ) Don't bad mouth the wt or your wife but try to make it appealing to stay home with you.

You sound like you have a good marriage and she's not overly committed to the org, so when your show her you can be a good husband and have fun together with you out of the organisation, her attendance might well die off naturally. A lot of people find it hard to make a vocal 'decision' because of the guilt but drifting away might be the easy option for her, you could look happy and relaxed with a glass of wine in hand when she comes in tired after a meeting. Why not start fading if your hearts not in it? I've faded fast and the elders haven't bothered me.

5

Indoctrination and subordination

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

there are so many gems in in search of christian freedom but i thought this section in 'indoctrination and subordination' was excellent, summing things up brilliantly, worth highlighting for anyone who hasn't read the book;.

"the sum of the evidence is, then, that although no extreme physical isolation occurs, a very effective mental isolation is pro- duced by the organizations interpretation placed on jesus words about not being part of the world.

the community of believers becomes quite insulated and intellectually sealed off from any source of scriptural material other than that coming from the one voice, that of the organization.

Tornintwo

Reading the real life examples of the effects of this isolationist, captive religion is powerful ' witness' that it isn't natural, human or christian.

20

Shunning is psychologically terrorizing

by poopie in

jw
friends

its barbaric.

Tornintwo

It's unchristian for sure, so sorry if this practice is hurting you right now

183

JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 in

1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

Tornintwo

I think if you recognize there are good and bad points in the witness organisation, you then have to concede that there are good and bad points in all Christian religions, such as those that do many charitable works to help those genuinely suffering. If God will overlook the negatives in the witness faith why not in other faiths? There are wheat and weeds everywhere, I've met a fair few nasty weeds in the jw org.

But the problem really comes to the fore when those negatives in an organisation amount to abuse. Such as :

allowing children to be raped under the cover of your religion through misapplication of the ancient 2 witness rule.

Or cutting off young people from their communities and families because they may be confused or have committed a 'sin', in many cases leading to depression, even suicide.

Or telling a battered wife that her situation isn't extreme enough for a separation and never for a divorce, telling her to forgive and be more submissive, sending her back into a potentially dangerous escalation of violence.

Or telling depressed, downtrodden and exhausted ones to just do more.

Or telling people they don't need an education, a career or a retirement plan, then mocking them in derision when they complain about that bad advice and its consequences.

or looking down on all non witnesses as 'worldly' ones, or is it 'amharets' as the Pharisees used to say and preaching death and destruction for 999 out of 1000, removing the love and mercy of christs message

or insisting people die when medical advances could save them, through misapplication of an ancient dietary law, when Jesus again and again emphasized the value of life (hence breaking gods law in curing on the sabbath)

or lying and concealing past mistakes and false prophecy, blaming almighty God for old light or their followers for misunderstanding ('75ers')

If we use the abuser analogy; Would you say because an abusive husband is kind at times and does good works that excuses him subjecting his wife and children to violence? That they should put up with the abuse for the sake of the good points? Or would you say they are right to seek peace and protection elsewhere?

51

One Year Later - A Thank You to Tony Morris.

by cappytan in

jw
friends

dear anthony morris, iii:.

i wanted to send you a note of "thanks" on this special day.. why is this day special, you may ask?

one year ago today, you, tony, woke me up to the fact that the governing body could not have jehovah's blessing or direction.. last year, on november 8th & 9th, 2014, the united states branch visit was broadcast to over 1,000,000 jehovah's witnesses across the country.. as i sat at the kingdom hall listening to the "historic occasion," i was ignoring certain doubts that had surfaced in the few months prior.

Tornintwo

I wonder if this is why AMIII appeared so unsure of himself in the last JW broadcasting, that it's got back to him that these people leaving the 'truth' are talking on the internet about how it was his talk which lead them to think this isn't Jehovah's organization?!. And it's not just this one, here is my personal 'favourite' which I found utterly shocking the first time , ignore Cedar's intro if you don't like him:

http://youtu.be/Nr0dI9OY_

Or listen to the whole talk, where AMIII kindly reminds us that our favourite uncle won't get through Armageddon just because he's a nice person:

http://mp3far.com/anthony-morris-the-time-left-is-reduced-how-will-you-use-it-mp3-download.html?search=anthony-morris-the-time-left-is-reduced-how-will-you-use-it-mp3-download.html

40

Greetings

by Pioneerbot in

wanted to say hi.

i've been lurking for a long time.

i also spend time on other forums.

Tornintwo

Hi pioneerbot and welcome! Well done getting you and your kids out! Would love to hear what woke you up? I'm recently awakened, one of my kids left a year before me and the witnesses' bad treatment of him started my doubts. My other older child has just left too. I'm relieved because they have their whole lives ahead of them to live free of the control of the organization, whereas we are just picking up the pieces of our lives. Good luck with your husband, mine is fully indoctrinated and I don't think a mass resignation by the GB could even wake him up! I agree this forum is great, a place to rant and laugh and debate and support eachother, with people who actually get what your going through X

5

Indoctrination and subordination

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

there are so many gems in in search of christian freedom but i thought this section in 'indoctrination and subordination' was excellent, summing things up brilliantly, worth highlighting for anyone who hasn't read the book;.

"the sum of the evidence is, then, that although no extreme physical isolation occurs, a very effective mental isolation is pro- duced by the organizations interpretation placed on jesus words about not being part of the world.

the community of believers becomes quite insulated and intellectually sealed off from any source of scriptural material other than that coming from the one voice, that of the organization.

Tornintwo

There are so many gems in In Search of Christian Freedom but I thought this section in 'indoctrination and subordination' was excellent, summing things up brilliantly, worth highlighting for anyone who hasn't read the book;

"The sum of the evidence is, then, that although no extreme physical isolation occurs, a very effective mental isolation is pro- duced by the organization’s interpretation placed on Jesus’ words about not being part of the world. The community of believers becomes quite insulated and intellectually sealed off from any source of Scriptural material other than that coming from the one voice, that of the organization. They are continually told that this is the only way to keep them from being misled. The apparent aim is to create a sterile atmosphere in which the views and interpretations of the orga- nization can circulate freely without having to confront any challenge.

As a rule the longer one is associated with the organization the more concentrated his or her social contacts are, the more restricted friendships are to those within the organization. Even “worldly” relatives, meaning non-Witness relatives, are often gradually shunted off to a rather cool and distant relationship.

One’s thus becoming part of an exclusive community with only limited, “necessary” contact with anyone outside is the factor that gives such enormous power to any disfellowshiping decree established by the organization. One’s whole social life resides within the organization. If associated for many years, to be disfellowshiped means to be cut off from virtually every friend- ship one has.

Particularly for those in their elderly years of life this can present a devastatingly depressing prospect. The situation par- allels closely that of persons in apostolic times who were ‘cast out of the synagogue,’ since the synagogue was the center of all so- cial contact in a Jewish community.23

I strongly doubt that most persons, in reading the Bible itself, would ever be led to view Jesus’ words about not being part of the world in the extreme way conveyed by the Watch Tower publications. Not that such an exclusivistic view is not found in the Bible. It is. But it is the viewpoint taken by the Pharisees, not that taught by Jesus Christ or his apostles. As already seen, the very name “Pharisee” means “separated” or “exclusive.” In their extreme views, this religious group sought to be separate from, and exclude from their associa- tion, all persons not holding to their particular traditional teach- ings and standards of holiness, viewing all such as “unclean.”24

Jesus Christ set a very different example from such extremists and this incensed them, caused them to condemn him and the way he associated with others. In reading his words, not only in the Sermon on the Mount but in all his teachings, one finds that Jesus’ primary focus was not on an elaborate set of doctrinal interpretations but on the real goal set out in the Scriptures, their true aim and thrust, namely love of God and love of neighbor."

32

Refused to go to meeting wife broke frying pan on my car....now SHE is inactive 4 years my advice!!!

by Witness 007 in

my wife is a stubborn stubborn woman.

when we got the internet in 1998 i slowly faded due to trying to prove apostates are lairs and scum...only to find they told nothing but "the truth.

" every qoute was checked and re-checked.

Tornintwo

hahahahaha - you just cheered me up. Love conquers all... sounds like a crazy ride, at least your marriage isn't boring!!

17

Acronyms

by Distracted in

jw
friends

reading through a lot of the forum posts and wondered what tatt stands for (?).

any more acronyms that are special to this site?

Tornintwo

where did DUB come from?

15

Missing Friends.

by Resi in

it's been a long time since i posted.

for a brief recap, i have an aunt who is one of jehovah's witnesses.

when i was really sick, i sought out their group because i remembered the support my aunt had and how they were like a second family to her.

Tornintwo

I have faded over the past few months and find myself quite lonely at times, missing some friendships. But I realize I can't have them unless I accept teachings and practices I no longer agree with, no blood, no birthdays, family shunning, looking down on worldly people, believing that everyone else is wrong and will die, mishandling of child abuse, legalism, dogmatism, judgementalism within the congregation and a thinly disguised hierarchy.

The reason I'm lonely is I've never cultivated friendships outside the organization, because I was told not to. My plan it to try to do that now and hopefully I'll miss the few nice witnesses less and less. Hopefully in the long run well have better friendships, which aren't conditional on us conforming to an organizational ideal.