Here's an interesting article on the subject:
. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/carrier2.html
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
(edited for a typo)
funkyderek
JoinedPosts by funkyderek
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Here come the torches and pitchforks
by FrightMare inhttp://www.boston.com/dailynews/277/nation/schools_and_local_governments_:.shtml .
a week after the attacks, the hamilton county commission in chattanooga, tenn., voted to post the ten commandments in city and county government buildings.
if a court frowns on the action, commission chairman bill hullander said, 'i would sure not want to be the person to walk up there and pull the nail out of it, so to speak, and take it down.
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funkyderek
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Faith.....to each his own
by noidea infaith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof .
as we read many post we see the diversity of faith.. for some it's faith in:.
god does exist vs god does not exist.
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funkyderek
Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof
Why would anybody believe firmly in anything without proof? If the foundation of a belief system is an arbitrary choice, then how can it be a strong belief?
Our faith is what gives us reason to face another day.
Not for me, I have plenty of real reasons.
To have faith in our beliefs is a personal decision. As individuals we have that freedom of choice.
True, but I have never been able to understand the mentality of a person who would consciously choose a belief system. My beliefs are based on my best interpretation of the available evidence. Anything else is a betrayal of rationality.
Our faith can change with knowledge that we take in.
How can it? If your beliefs are firm without proof, why would more information change that? What usually happens when people's firm but unproven beliefs are challenged is that they claim a right to ignorance, under the guise of ideas such as "freedom of choice, thought and belief".
To share knowledge is an exemplary thing, if it is done with the right motives.
The motives are irrelevant. The knowledge is the important thing.
One should not be made to feel they should have to defend their faith to others, to prove what directs them in their lives.
If people make claims in my presence, I reserve the right to challenge them. If their claims are true, I will learn something. If their claims are false, they will learn something. Why would anyone wish to wallow in ignorance, even if they have the right to do so?
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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Ridiculous rules-
by ashitaka inso, what ridiculous rules have been imposed on you guys?
i had my jw father tell me that green shirts were rebellious, and an elder said that star wars was demonic, just to give a couple of examples.......
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funkyderek
I was told by an elder, while preparing for baptism that old-fashioned dances, such as the waltz and the foxtrot, are acceptable but "modern" dancing such as the Jitterbug are not.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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Weird Scriptures
by deceit inhi all,would just like to say a quick thanks to all the regular posters on this board, please dont think for one minute that your hard work in unmasking the borg is going without notice.
lurkers read here and think subconsciously about all info provided and sooner or later it all dawns on them (like myself),,,, so once again thanks.. now, what my question is, do any of you guys know some real good scriptures from the bible that are really weird/gross/unethical/murderous ect ect?.
the reason being is that there are quit a few that i know that think the bible is like a nice smelling rose and seem to forget that there is also a really strange and dark side to it that really doesnt make any sense.
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funkyderek
Numbers 31, among the most unethical, immoral and absurd accounts ever written.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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Is evolution a fact or theory?
by sleepy inis evolution a fact or a theory?.
i suppose it depends on what you mean.. evolution in the sense of change from one generation to the next seams to be fact.. is well observed that offspring from a given creature will differ from the parent in different ways and thus after many generation can come to be quite different.. also that the genes of a creature can be affected by radiation from the sun and be alter in a novel way producing new and unique features in its offspring ( as long as the mutation is in the sperm or the egg).. that we came about via changes in the genes that eventually created a very different creature than that existed many generations ago , is that a fact?.
this requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.. what evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?
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funkyderek
This requires that not only that there are changes between generation but also that these changes could be directed by different environments to such a degree that only certain specialised features could survive and reproduce offspring whilst other creatures have died out and only remain in fossilised form.
What evidence is there that such environments can and have existed?Different environments exist now and creatures exist which are adapted to their environment. It's an aphorism that creatures which are not suited to their environment will die out.
And remember even thought evolution can produce changes in offspring so can intelligence.
But intelligence would normally do it in a more intelligent way. It seems pointless for an intelligent creator to spend billions of years creating, destroying and re-creating life forms, only to end up with imperfect creatures full of vestigial organs and junk DNA.
Is consciousness just the result of the mechanisms in our brain or does consciousness use the physical brain in order to exist?
Could be either, but it appears in every measurable way that consciousness is a function of the brain and nothing more. When the brain is damaged, consciousness is affected. Also, there is no known way for a "spiritual" consciousness to interact with the physical brain without leaving some evidence of the interactions. In the absence of the extraordinary evidence necessary for the supernatural explanation, the sensible option would be to assume that there is a natural explanation, even if the details currently elude us.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, also on the above , but can we lose our qualia ( I think that’s how you spell it) that’s our sensations of experiences , sight ,sound etc in our head our imagination apart from dying ,is there an accident that can cause me to lose the ability to imagine or compose a song in my head?
A lobotomy can remove emotions, rendering a person unable to make the simplest of decisions. People whose brains have been damaged in accidents often make full recoveries, but with completely different personalities. I heard of at least one case where brain damage resulted in a person not only being unable to see, but having no concept or memory of sight, even though there was nothing physically wrong with her eyes.
If you're interested in this subject, I suggest you read the following books:The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat by Oliver Sacks, a fascinating book about bizarre neurological disorders.
The Meme Machine by Susan Blackmore, exploring the idea of memetic evolution (a meme being a self-replicating idea analogous to a gene).
On evolution in general, anything by Richard Dawkins is a good start.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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OK, This is what I have to say
by peacepipe ini need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.
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funkyderek
Unclepenn1 asked:
Hmm, how do we know what's right and wrong? Was the world Trade Center tragedy somethig that was wrong? If so, why
It was wrong because it violated people's rights. Whether it violated any commands in a "holy" book, or whether it was a result of obeying such commands, is irrelevant. It was inherently wrong, regardless of what your gods may think.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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OK, This is what I have to say
by peacepipe ini need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.
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funkyderek
Albert Einstein on ethics:
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Pretty much sums up my view too. Whether or not there is a god has no bearing on what is right or wrong.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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The Bible advances women's rights
by Rex B13 inour forum's now chapter likes to slander christian believers over alleged poor treatment of women.
in truth, the bible advanced women's rights in the ancient world, even in a paternalistic society.
here are the results of research into this topic.. num 5.12--the trial of bitter waters (sotah) is a an amazing provision by god for a woman to publicly clear her name (and indict a dysfunctional husband in the process).
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funkyderek
OK Rex, I'm going to ignore all the passsages in the Bible that deal with women as property, and concentrate on the point you made, just like you asked.
Num 5.12--the trial of bitter waters (Sotah) is a an amazing provision by God for a woman to publicly clear her name (and indict a dysfunctional husband in the process).
I wasn't really familiar with this procedure so I looked it up. Here it is:
5:11 And the Lord spoke to Moses:
5:12 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'If any man's wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him,
5:13 and a man has sexual relations with her, and it is concealed from the eyes of her husband, and it is hidden that she has defiled herself, since there was no witness against her, nor was she caught-
5:14 and if jealous feelings come over him and he becomes jealous of his wife, when she is defiled; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, when she is not defiled-
5:15 then the man must bring his wife to the priest, and he must bring the offering required for her, one tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he must not pour olive oil on it or put frankincense on it, because it is a grain offering of suspicion, a grain offering for remembering, for bringing iniquity to remembrance.
5:16 "Then the priest will bring her near, and have her stand before the Lord.
5:17 The priest will then take holy water in a pottery jar, and take some of the dust that will be on the floor of the tabernacle, and put it into the water.
5:18 Then the priest will have the woman stand before the Lord, uncover the woman's head, and put the grain offering for remembering in her hands, which is the grain offering of suspicion. And in the hand of the priest will be the bitter water that brings a curse.
5:19 Then the priest will put her under oath, and say to the woman, 'If no other man has had sexual relations with you, and if you have not gone astray and become defiled while under your husband's authority, may you be free from this bitter water that brings a curse.
5:20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had sexual relations with you...'
5:21 Then the priest will put the woman under the oath of the curse and will say to the woman, 'The Lord make you an attested curse among your people, if the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your belly swell;
5:22 and this water that causes the curse will go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.' Then the woman must say, 'Amen, amen.'
5:23 "And then the priest will write these curses on the scroll, and then scrape them off into the bitter water.
5:24 Then he will make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and the water that brings a curse will enter her to produce bitterness.
5:25 And the priest will take the grain offering of suspicion from the woman's hand, wave the grain offering before the Lord, and bring it to the altar;
5:26 then the priest will take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, burn it on the altar, and afterward make the woman drink the water.
5:27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and behaved unfaithfully toward her husband, the water that brings a curse will enter her to produce bitterness, and her belly will swell, her thigh will fall away, and the woman will become a curse among her people.
5:28 But if the woman has not defiled herself, and is clean, then she will be free and will be able to bear children.
5:29 "This is the law for cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself,
5:30 or when jealous feelings come over a man and he becomes suspicious of his wife; then he must have the woman stand before the Lord, and the priest will perform all this law upon her.
5:31 Then the man will be free from iniquity, but that woman will bear the consequences of her iniquity."To summarise, if a woman is suspected of adultery, she is made to drink a conconction of water and dirt. If it makes her sick, she is guilty of adultery and will be put to death. Otherwise she is innocent.
Now Rex, how is this fair to women (or indeed to men)? And how is it any different from the Code of Hammurabi? The only difference is that if a woman is found guilty she dies automatically, whereas in the Hebrew version she will be put to death.Rex, I am stunned. I honestly cannot believe you posted something like that and didn't mean it tongue-in-cheek. Do you even realise what you're saying? The trial for a crime involves the accused ingesting mud! That is the work of savages. It's primitive superstitious nonsense and I'm astounded that you can think otherwise. If it appeared anywhere other than the bible, you would no doubt agree. So why do you defend such backward nonsense?
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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Comments? Black Slavery
by Naeblis infound this article interesting.
what do you guys think?
it seems to be opposed topretty much everything i've read so far.. .
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funkyderek
I guess I'm still waiting for the Naeblis-drahcir-Six-funkyderek crowd to answer the question.
Not really sure what the question is. I already said I was against reparations for alleged descendants of alleged victims and that I'm against tax money being sent to Israel. I'm not sure what other question I was asked.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
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Comments? Black Slavery
by Naeblis infound this article interesting.
what do you guys think?
it seems to be opposed topretty much everything i've read so far.. .
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funkyderek
Yes, but now that it's been demonstrated that the U.S. government does TAKE $2 from you every month and sends it DI-rectly to Israel, what are you going to do about it? Likely nothing... just keep ponying up the money, just like every other taxable American.
Well, it doesn't take it from me, me not being an American citizen or ever having been in America, but you're probably right. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go to jail for those two dollars.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire