I need to put my two cents in about this even though I'm reading it a couple days after the last post.
When I think of the death of those I care about I usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
Those who I've been close to that have died that I'm questionable about them actually going to heaven I feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.When I REALLY think about my own death I have a panic attack. I don't think I'm anything special that deserves to live past this life. I don't think I'd have any great contributions to make in any everlasting life. However, the feeling I get in my very being when I come to the realization that theres nothing else to think about once your dead because your dead forever and ever and ever and ever and ever to all eternity is nothing short of a panic attack. It's just the thought of there being nothing else, not a thought, nothing for ETERNITY scares the living crap out of me. ETERNITY is a long time. What would I do for eternity? Well nothing, I'll be dead. Well, maybe there'll be something else down the road. . . .No, there's not I'll be dead. Well, what will I do all that time?. . Nothing, I'll be dead.
Up to a certain time in my life I felt when you died there was still something else. When your young you don't quite fathom eternal nothingness because of music, shows, books and an ongoing imagination. I used to think about suicide and being in my casket and listening to my music and keeping tabs on those I love- not so bad. But at some point, if you really think hard about it, that realization that there'll be no music hits you hard. (well for some of us I suppose- not everyone)
I know that some hospice workers who work with terminally ill patients use visualization methods to help the patient cope with their death. It puts them in a safe place of comfort, love and peace. I often thought that is the sole purpose of religion. To get your mind to skip over this horrid realization so you can live your life to the fullest without having to be troubled with that black cloud. Because I asked the question in another post what the world would be like if all people were atheists and there were no religions. What would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society? Why would some people care if all they did was get high, drunk, sleep with whoever the want, kill others etc. If you could get away with it then so what? You live, you die. Get what you can because it's all you'll ever have.
I'm tired, this is a stupid reply but maybe someone will reply back that just might give me . . .something. . .I don't know what. Sometimes when your mind tells you something you have to weed through all the thoughts that come in to find just one bud that may blossom into something useful.
PeacePipe
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May I ask why you think atheists are not moral people? That they don't care about their world and the people in it? A world of humanists would probably be a whole lot better and tolerant. It isn't atheists and humanists that have caused the atrocities down thru history. It's been religionists who are convinced that there way is the only right way. Look at all the holy wars,the crusades,the exploitation and conversion of indigenous peoples. The destruction of their cultures.Look at Afhgan and other countries today.
Humanists/atheists attempt to help all regardless of any religious affiliations. They believe that with reason,logic and compassion we can all work together to make this world a better place. I have to say,in my life,that the most caring,compassionate,reasonable people are these. Their love for humanity isn't limited by relgious tnetes and policies. I don't know who you know personally,but the humanists I know have the highest regard for life,and do not live the hedonistic life that you attribute to them. I think your view or definition of atheism comes from the religious folk. If time allows check out a secular humanism website. read their charters and hopes for humankind. You will be greatly surprised. Tina
Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
Tina
Tina,
Thank you for your thoughts however:
May I ask why you think atheists are not moral people?
I asked the question in another post what the world would be like if all people were atheists and there were no religions. What would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society? Why would some people care if all they did was get high, drunk, sleep with whoever the want, kill others etc. If you could get away with it then so what? You live, you die. Get what you can because it's all you'll ever have.
NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT I DID NOT THINK ATHEISTS ARE MORAL PEOPLE. I asked the question what would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society if there was no religion.
*I think of the terrorist children who in recent years have killed themselves and their schoolmates because they had NO HOPE!. They did not FEAR DEATH. They would rather have a moment of FAME and be DEAD than live their life for their life had NO PURPOSE to them.
*I think of the teenagers across America who I was one of at a time who go out and PARTY till they are so drunk or high that they can’t see and then get in a car and kill themselves or their friends or strangers or drink themselves to death!
*I think of the freaking people who have kids and dump them off on whoever they can so they can go self indulge themselves forgetting to go to their childrens milestones or important events or give them love and support. Instead they’d rather be out partying or looking for love.
*I think of the sad people in the world who have been hurt so bad they may never be able to shake it.
*I think of a 10 year old telling me he wishes he were DEAD.
Tina, these people are anybody. Christians, JW’s, humanists, atheists, anyone.
It isn't atheists and humanists that have caused the atrocities down thru history. . . . . . . Humanists/atheists attempt to help all regardless of any religious affiliations. They believe that with reason,logic and compassion we can all work together to make this world a better place.
Yes Tina that may be true of SOME atheists/humanists but it is also true of most religious groups as well including many JW's. I’d say you could find a lot of instances in history of mass murder, murder, terrorists, wars etc that were not driven by the RELIGIOUS FANATICS the same as you can find many that were driven by RELIGIOUS FANATICS.
If we had a world of no religion, Everyone was an atheist, Religion was long gone. . . Well guess what, it would be human nature to start divisions. There would be the Moral Atheists who were for peace, love and harmony. There would be the Immoral Atheists who would start their own crime rings and terrorist groups because they wanted to rule the world. There would be the Inbetween Atheists who would consist of hundreds of groups of varying degrees. The Moral Atheists would then have to start teaching their beliefs on the Immoral and Inbetween atheists and thus a religion would be one day be born.
I, like you, wish the world could be peaceful and kind and that John Lennon’s “Imagine” could be a reality but I don’t believe that will ever happen. There are always going to be good people, bad people and a little bit of both people. I know most people on this thread have been hurt by JW’s but here is a reality check: There are a lot of people who have been hurt just as bad or worse by Christians, Catholics, Protestants, Atheists etc. NOT ALL of any of those groups are bad. The majority are good, moral people who use their religion as a means of coping with day to day life, death and injustices. The smaller percentage hides behind it to create havoc and advance their own pleasures. I include Atheism in that thought because it is a religion. It has a belief system. It just hasn’t evolved yet into the many outlets that Christianity has YET.
And I would like it to be known that I am Nothing yet I am Everything. I am Looking but I have not Found. I pull the good from the bad and sort through it. I was not brought up with only one faith but many. I do not make my comments about “hedonists” based on the religious folk. I base my comments on my own morals, what I think is right and wrong and the trials and tribulations I have faced. I have many friends with many different beliefs. My friends are good but not perfect. I do not judge them based on “Christian or Religious” dogmas because it is not my place to judge. Some christians make me want to puke. Some people on this board make me want to puke. A lot of times I make myself want to puke. But you gotta take the good with the bad that’s just the way it is and will always be.
Peace be with you All. . . . .
PeacePipe
Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty