it seems this whole debate, (creation v/s evolution) iz coming to the fore again, along with (religion v/s state) debate.
my sister iz a producer for pbs & haz a documentary coming up on the scopes or (monkey trial), & i think little haz changed.. i am non-religious, but i can't help laughing when arguements are made claiming man & monkeys share common ansesters, although a few individuals on my wifes side make me wonder.
i am not saying, i have the answers, but man iz just so radicaly different from animals!
OK Escargot, now read the article. Then read what you said above. Then read the article again. Then read what you said above again. Then look back and forth very quickly between the two, slap yourself on the forehead and say "D'oh!"
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
it seems this whole debate, (creation v/s evolution) iz coming to the fore again, along with (religion v/s state) debate.
my sister iz a producer for pbs & haz a documentary coming up on the scopes or (monkey trial), & i think little haz changed.. i am non-religious, but i can't help laughing when arguements are made claiming man & monkeys share common ansesters, although a few individuals on my wifes side make me wonder.
i am not saying, i have the answers, but man iz just so radicaly different from animals!
Escargot,
With all due respect, you're talking through your arse.
I'd be very surprised if even a tabloid newspaper would print something so absurd. It would certainly never be reprinted in a reputable journal. Try actually reading up on the science you don't understand, rather than relying on misunderstood, half-remembered newspaper articles.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
it seems this whole debate, (creation v/s evolution) iz coming to the fore again, along with (religion v/s state) debate.
my sister iz a producer for pbs & haz a documentary coming up on the scopes or (monkey trial), & i think little haz changed.. i am non-religious, but i can't help laughing when arguements are made claiming man & monkeys share common ansesters, although a few individuals on my wifes side make me wonder.
i am not saying, i have the answers, but man iz just so radicaly different from animals!
Sharing genetic code iz proof of nada. God could have made all creatures using the same building blocks.
Absolutely correct. A god (or gods or aliens) could have just created life to look exactly as if it had evolved. If this is the case, he did an absolutely superb job. As well as matching up the DNA so that for example, humans and chimps are ~98% identical including their junk DNA he also littered the planet with fossils of just the right kind in just the right place to give the impression of gradual change over long periods of time. Evolution can even be observed under laboratory conditions.
Clearly, if a god did create species independently, he wants us to believe that all life on earth evolved from a single ancestor, and who are we to argue with the will of god?
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
i want to send lots of christmas greetings cards this year.
i especially want to send a card to dozens of posters from this site.
i suppose the obvious answer is that folks email me with an address.
Bumpety bump
Anyone who wants a Christmas card from me, just mail me...
[email protected]
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
i've been told the glass moves around spelling stuff out.
my brother, before he became a dumbdub said it happened to him - but he was pretty young and probably p'd.
movies and tv play along with it.
Sirona,
Stop saying things that insinuate my beliefs are false! You simply cant prove that they are false, if we're talking about testables.That's true, because you believe in an untestable phenomenon without evidence. Of course I can't prove they're false, anymore than you can prove there isn't an invisible elf sitting on my shoulder. It doesn't mean the belief is worthy of consideration.
I care if someones belief hurts them, or someone else. However, I think everyone is entitled to spend their life believing anything they want to, whether others agree or not.I agree, people have the right to believe whatever they want just as I have the right to point out the flaws in their belief system.
I do not belong to a church. Being pagan, I would not let my life be lost if someone didnt agree with my beliefs, neither would I kill. The problem you describe is not that peoples beliefs may be false, just how they act on those beliefs.Any decent person would act according to their beliefs. Anyone who acts against their beliefs is a hypocrite. If their beliefs tell them (for example) that enemies of God's kingdom must be destroyed, then that's what they've got to do. My beliefs tell me I only have the right to kill or injure another in self-defence. Other people have different beliefs. Should I respect these beliefs and only disagree with their actions?
Im also amazed that you liken anyones beliefs to the JWs....lets face it, there are sects and cults, in religion there is control, but that doesnt make any belief invalid.Beliefs which are not true are invalid. That's my belief. I also believe that it's only valid if it's correct. If you believe my beliefs are valid, your own cannot be.
You use the words "demonstrably untrue" and "cannot possibly be true". Well I would not say that of YOUR beliefs (namely that things like the Ouija are NOT contacting supernatural forces). You CANNOT say that of mine - e.g. apply your own rules. prove to me my beliefs "cannot possibly be true".You're right, your beliefs are not testable and therefore not falsifiable. That means that nobody can ever provide you with evidence to change your beliefs. Nothing anyone can say can ever cause you to believe anything else, unless you arbitrarily decide to change them. It means your beliefs are exactly as valid as the belief that there is an invisible elf on my shoulder. Congratulations.
There may be reasons that you are unaware of that make the existence of spirits unverifyable. You just dont know.Same goes for my little elf, and an infinite number of other imaginary phenomena.
I think you should be tolerant and respectful towards other's beliefs. Personally I dont believe the same thing as Christians, but I dont go around telling them that they are superstitious and gullible, I dont talk to them in a condescending manner.Nor do I, unless they state or imply to me that their beliefs are correct. If someone tells me that the capital of Australia is Sydney I will (sometimes) correct them. If someone tells me that the world was created 6,000 years ago I will do the same. I will defend anybody's right to believe either of those things, but I will not pussyfoot around and pretend that they're not completely wrong. Why would any honest person be threatened by someone challenging their beliefs. If you're wrong, isn't it better to find out?
I accept that there is a chance that they are right and I am wrong, possibly.They're not right. Christians (at least those who take the bible literally) believe things which cannot possibly be true. From the little I know of your beliefs you could be right, but there's no reason to believe you are.
Or we are both right in our own way. Have you ever heard of phenomenological reality?More likely you're both wrong in your own way. Phenomenology means that everything is ultimately untestable, and that there is no external reality. To be honest, I'm only vaguely familiar with the philosophy so I can't comment in detail but my beliefs have always presupposed an independent objective reality. I suppose that's ultimately untestable but I think it's the only way of creating a consistent useful model of reality and it seems to work very very well.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
i've been told the glass moves around spelling stuff out.
my brother, before he became a dumbdub said it happened to him - but he was pretty young and probably p'd.
movies and tv play along with it.
I dont care who is right or wrong. We could all be right. We could all be wrong. I believe based on my experiences and knowledge, and it enhances my life.
I do care who's right or wrong. I hate the idea of someone spending their life devoted to a belief that's demonstrably untrue. That's one of the reasons so many people visit this site. Human subjectivity is not always reliable which is why people believe ridiculous things, why people are willing to die and to kill for beliefs that cannot possibly be true.
You said that anything not testable is not important, well I think that maybe is the basis of where we differ. I think that things not testable are very important. It is difficult to test emotion, reason, awareness, even thoughts and their effects, in any true "scientific" way. Studies have been done, but there are very many conflicting theories. I like this diversity. I would hate my world to be full of "proven facts" and nothing more. No debating, no differences of opinion, everything would be tested and proven, end of story. YAWN.Let me clarify. When it comes to understanding the nature of reality, either supernatural beings exist and affect our lives or they do not. If they do, then this should be verifiable. If they do not, or appear not to affect us in any way, then it is pointless and possibly dangerous to pretend they do.
For what it's worth, I think it would be a very boring world if everyone was the same, but that doesn't mean people have to believe things which are clearly false. We can have different opinions based on the same facts, but some things either are or aren't. Sometimes there's no middle ground.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
i've been told the glass moves around spelling stuff out.
my brother, before he became a dumbdub said it happened to him - but he was pretty young and probably p'd.
movies and tv play along with it.
I feel I have sufficient evidence to satisfy ME.
But many people believe things which are incompatible with your beliefs. One of you must be wrong. How can we tell which one?
Mindchild in another post hypothesised that nothing is "real" anyway, like in the film, The Matrix. All sorts of possibilities come into play when you consider that to be an actual possibility.If that's the case then anything may be possible depending on the whims of whoever's in charge. I don't see much difference between that universe and one controlled by supernatural forces. Our universe however appears to be rational, and obey constant physical laws. In every testable way, it appears to be real and not subject to supernatural forces. There's always the possibility that it could be, but there are an infinite number of such possibilities and no reason to believe in any of them.
I realise you will view that as unbelievable, but from my standpoint it happened.But did it actually happen. All sorts of people believe all sorts of things, many of them mutually incompatible. If the beliefs are extraordinary - and not disprovable - then it is reasonable to disbelieve them, and if there is no solid evidence, to dismiss them. We all do this at times.
Why can you just not accept that there MIGHT be things out there that you dont understand and that science hasnt found yetI do accept that. But when science does find them, science will be able to test them, as it is able to test ouija boards. I won't base my belief system on things not known to exist and I certainly won't base it on things which appear to be nothing more than phenomena of the human psyche. Anything not testable is not important.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
i was just wondering if anyone else here loves alanis and her music.
i really identify with many of her lyrics, especially on her supposed former infatuation junkie cd and her unplugged cd.
i am very excited, her new album will be out in feb. i really love her song these r the thoughts.
Oh God, what have I started?
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
on the vasectomy thread someone mentioned jw opinion of body piercing.
do you have a body piercing or a tattoo?
did you have it done while in the dubs, in secret maybe?
I have my tongue pierced and a tattoo of a spider on my arm.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
i've been told the glass moves around spelling stuff out.
my brother, before he became a dumbdub said it happened to him - but he was pretty young and probably p'd.
movies and tv play along with it.
Sirona,
Firstly of all I am not superstitious.One of the definitions of superstition according to Webster's is:
You seem to believe that ouija boards work, and that this is due to some supernatural force. If so, you are superstitious. If I misinterpreted your earlier comments, I apologise.
Neither to I consider myself to be gullible.Well, nobody does, do they? But the oppositite of skepticism is gullibility. The skeptics here have provided possible rational explanations for any claims that needed them. People who just accept the claims you and others here made about ouija boards are by definition superstitious and gullible.
You clearly think you are more intelligent than anyone who would believe in anything unusual or unexplained.No, I don't but I do think it is irrational to believe in "unusual and unexplained" things without sufficient evidence.
How dare you insinuate that you "understand" more than me!You used anecdotal evidence and hearsay to support an irrational belief. How should I react?
Just because I believe in something different doesnt make me stupid.No, but if you believe that ouija boards have mystical powers it makes you auperstitious, gullible and wrong.
Stop being so narrowminded.Stop being so gullible.
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
(edited for typos)
