JCanon, you're missing a very important piece of information there. The fossilized tropical plant life around the polar circle is not evidence of a catastrophic flood, it's from when those parts of the continental plates were situated near the equator.
The continental plates are constantly drifting. If you notice on a world map the shape of South America dovetails perfectly with the West coast of Africa. There are areas in Newfoundland with rocks that match perfectly with rocks in Scotland, like a piece of paper that was torn in two, showing where that particular break in the continental shelf occurred.
At one time Greenland had a tropical climate because it WAS in the tropics. One school of thought holds that the continents drift and collide back and forth over the eons, sometimes switching the direction of their movement. Evidence of this can be found in the Appalachian cordillera, a series of fold mountains thrust up over eons while the North American continent drifted East, only to erode to their current heights as the continent drifted West and pushed up the Western Cordillera (Rockies, Sierra Nevadas). Given enough time, the Rockies will erode to a state similar to the Appalachians today.
Also, the water canopy theory is impossible because that amount of water in the atmosphere would make breathing impossible due to the crushing atmospheric pressure and would raise the surface temperature to boiling. Basic biological processes would be rendered impossible.
marmot
JoinedPosts by marmot
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12
need good information about ice drillings
by the_end_of_eternity ini am in this discussion with an elderm and it is all about the age of the polar caps, coral reefs etc.
for abvious reasons this is important discussion.. anyway, what is good scientific information proving (or priving not) the age is more then a few 1000 years old.... i know there have been some drillings done etc.
most siytes just give this as a fact, which i do not doubt so much, but of course he wants more prove.. same with the age of the coral islands (atols).. thanks all.. end_of_eternity.
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marmot
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Babies get shunned
by Crooked Lumpy Vessel inmy sister was recently disfellowshipped and she told me that she was eating in a restaurant yesterday when the elder that disfellowshipped her was seated at the table next to her.
of course they would not breathe a word to her.
but her son (4 years old) had kept saying hello over and over to the elder and his wife and they both refused to acknowledge him, smile of even say hello back.
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marmot
Just be thankful you're not a baby born to the wrong ethnic group in Old Testament days, or you would have been dashed against the rocks or worse torn out of your pregnant mother's belly under god's orders.
God expects EXCLUSIVE devotion, you know. -
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WHAT IS THE NEW GENERATION CHANGE?
by wannaexit ini've been hearing much about the new generation change?
what is it?.
i heard that something was revealed at the annual meeting.. wanna.
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marmot
Congrats on your first steps Jeff, but you've just stepped into the rabbit hole and you have no idea how far down you'll go.
My progression went something like:
- I believe that the Watchtower has the truth, and I'll just wait for them to fix what's obviously wrong.
- I doubt the Watchtower has the truth, but I still believe the Bible is the word of God
- I believe the Bible is the word of God, but why are there so many passages at odds with science? And why is god so murderous?
- I believe the book of Genesis is allegory
- I don't believe the bible is divinely inspired
- I don't believe there is a god actively involved in human affairs
- I am an atheist, if there is a god I'll chat with him after I'm dead.
This doesn't mean that I'm opposed to others' views on faith, but history seems to show that people arguing over faith (specifically whose is superior) tend to end up slaughtering each other.
I still think the bible (at least portions of it) contains very valuable life lessons, but so does the Qu'ran (parts of it, obviously), the teachings of Buddha and modern science among countless others.
I wish you the best on your journey. -
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growing up native american
by BIG D infor those of you that dont know, iam half choctaw indian, my mom told me an sad, but interesting story the other day, she is jw, and my dad elder, she had her indian boarding school reunion, in oklahoma, and did not want to go, the first i have ever heard of her reunion, in all my life,.
she told me this story, similar stories i have heard from indian relatives, when she was a little girl, about 7 , she had 11 brothers and sisters, she lived on tribal lands in oklahoma, her great grandmother signed the 5 civilized scrolls act in 1907 that said indians would give up there ansterial lands and be relocated to indian territory, oklahoma.our tribe was from louisana.. her older family traveled from louisana, to oklahoma, in the dead of winter, on foot and hungry the whole way, over half the tribe died, sickness and malnourishment set in on the journey, and the military escort was berating them the whole way, the exodus, known to history books tday as the trail of tears.
the soldiers learned the words tish-pa, which means hurry up.. for some time after they made it to indian territory, they were given dispersments of money, they did not use money, and had no real use for it, it stopped shortly thereafter, the site named skully, to this day, which means money, a new word made up for it.. .
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marmot
I don't know if it merits its own thread, but it shows you how little there is separating us from chaos. Ethnic rivalries and nationalism are poisonous, which is why I don't like to get too wrapped up in Native causes myself.
Think about Bosnia, where people were celebrating the winter Olympics in 1984 and ten years later were slaughtering each other in the streets because they were from a different ethnic background.
1990 boils down to an ill-advised golf course expansion that would have bulldozed a historic cemetery and pine tree grove on our sister reserve 40 minutes west of here. The land is a legal minefield because our sister community was never classified as a "reserve" by the government so the ownership of the land was in question. Some protesters erected barricades to stop the developers and the provincial police force, in an equally ill-advised move, tried to storm the lines. They weren't counting on the military experience of some of the protesters who went home and brought guns. A shootout ensued, a policeman died.
Like-minded men on my reserve set up a blockade on one of the main bridges into Montreal as a show of solidarity and the province appealed to the federal government to bring in the army. The standoff lasted 72 days. -
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growing up native american
by BIG D infor those of you that dont know, iam half choctaw indian, my mom told me an sad, but interesting story the other day, she is jw, and my dad elder, she had her indian boarding school reunion, in oklahoma, and did not want to go, the first i have ever heard of her reunion, in all my life,.
she told me this story, similar stories i have heard from indian relatives, when she was a little girl, about 7 , she had 11 brothers and sisters, she lived on tribal lands in oklahoma, her great grandmother signed the 5 civilized scrolls act in 1907 that said indians would give up there ansterial lands and be relocated to indian territory, oklahoma.our tribe was from louisana.. her older family traveled from louisana, to oklahoma, in the dead of winter, on foot and hungry the whole way, over half the tribe died, sickness and malnourishment set in on the journey, and the military escort was berating them the whole way, the exodus, known to history books tday as the trail of tears.
the soldiers learned the words tish-pa, which means hurry up.. for some time after they made it to indian territory, they were given dispersments of money, they did not use money, and had no real use for it, it stopped shortly thereafter, the site named skully, to this day, which means money, a new word made up for it.. .
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marmot
I'm Mohawk and while we didn't suffer as badly as other Native groups because we were resourceful and situated next to a major financial center (Montreal), there were still a lot of unpleasant bits in our history.
My Grandmother went to a religious girl's school where the nuns would prohibit the children from speaking their mother tongue and punishment meant having your hand held over the flames of an open woodstove to show you what "hell" felt like, to go outside the village you had to go and ask permission from the local Mounties like some sort of second-class citizen, and the little bit of land we had was unfairly carved up by the government to make way for rail lines, power lines, major highways and the hated St-Lawrence Seaway, which completely cut the people off from the river and permanently changed the culture.
This was all before my generation, though, but things have been turbulent for me as well. I remember Canadian army troop helicopters thumping overhead during the summer of 1990 and seeing tanks and armored personnel carriers stationed all around our village. We had to get milk and bread from the Red Cross because the barricades weren't allowing food deliveries through. We went outside the lines on two occasions to get groceries, once in a speedboat that docked at a sympathetic Canadian government minister's personal marina, and the second time by car over the bridge into Montreal at night. That car ride was one of the eeriest moments of my life, as there were hundreds upon hundreds of people lining the opposite shore and they were all chanting stuff like "Mort aux sauvages!" ("Death to the savages!") and throwing rocks or kicking the vehicles as they drove by.
A few of my uncles and some of my cousins were at the barricades with AK-47s, vietnam-vintage M16s and old hunting rifles staring out at the razor wire and tanks farther down the road. A large number of Mohawk men have served in the U.S. Marines so a lot of them brought tactical knowledge that thankfully was never put to the test.
The Canadian army tried a helicopter invasion of the town by coming in unsuspectingly from across the river and touching down on an island far from the barricades but it was a group of unarmed women who pushed them back. I know an old guy who was fishing near the bridge when this happened who joined the women and wrestled a rifle away from a soldier and threw it into the river. Kids who swim there in the summer have been trying to find it ever since.
Once the crisis had been settled the relationships between whites and non-natives had drastically changed. I got into fights at school because I came from the reserve and I even had a knife pulled on me. At one time I was part of a large group of Mohawk kids who were going to French school, but after the crisis almost all of them transferred out. Now I got it from both sides. Kids at school would be on me because I was Mohawk, and kids on the bus ride home would call me a frenchman.
On top of all that, being a Jehovah's Witness and the fat kid meant I had a trifecta of schoolyard persecution. -
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The Bible - God's Word or Man's? - What Convinces You?
by sweet pea inhaving believed the whole bible, hook, line and sinker all these years i get the impression many of you have come to the conclusion that we should take it with a pinch of salt and not hold to it so dogmatically.
and some possibly believe in it just as much as you did when you were a witness.
to save me some time please, lovely people, as i am very lazy - could you share with me why you do or don't believe in it - what evidence there is either way and if there are any particular books that you found helpful in coming to your conclusions?
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marmot
My own conclusions about the bible as a man-made book were reached over a long period of study and reflection.
I read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins but that didn't convince me at the time.
The tipping point for me came when I did a thorough study of Genesis and I couldn't reconcile the idea that mankind is only 6000 years old. There is simply too much evidence from multiple cross-verifiable sources to the contrary. There are some apologist who have concocted very complicated explanations for this but they seem to be grasping at straws.
I fully admit that it is scary to think that there is no god and that your life is the only one you're going to get, and I even found myself wanting to pray, but that fear eventually goes away. I honestly think there's something physiological about it, even Buddhist have a term for the potentially terrifying moment when meditation makes the mind blank.
The point is that fear is transient. I now feel at peace. -
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Do like this music?
by blueviceroy inhttp://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pbilay7mdbw&feature=related.
this guy kills me with his hand made music..
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marmot
I crack up during his Iron Maiden cover.
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This is how wrongful disfellowshippings happen
by AnneB inre: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/146760/1.ashx.
did it ever occur to any of you that blakeseeley and carlhernz could be separate people posting from the same computer?
if they are then it follows that their vocabularies and writing styles may be similar; if one is a journalist (even part-time) perhaps the other is as well.. it could be that one is visiting the other; carlhernz said that blakeseeley was in florida at present but would be returning to texas soon.. why not step back, take a few deep breaths...and unlock that thread?.
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marmot
Anne, read through (new) Carl's posts - in post #2 he says that he sent an e-mail to Blake Seeley after reading his thread.
They both used the same computer.
Why would Carl send an e-mail to someone sharing the same computer? -
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This is how wrongful disfellowshippings happen
by AnneB inre: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/146760/1.ashx.
did it ever occur to any of you that blakeseeley and carlhernz could be separate people posting from the same computer?
if they are then it follows that their vocabularies and writing styles may be similar; if one is a journalist (even part-time) perhaps the other is as well.. it could be that one is visiting the other; carlhernz said that blakeseeley was in florida at present but would be returning to texas soon.. why not step back, take a few deep breaths...and unlock that thread?.
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marmot
From the looks of it, the original Carl_Hernz aka BlakeSeeley aka Carl Hernz got his feelings hurt a few months ago because he ran into people who called him out on some blanket statements he was making. His final posting before leaving (under his original username of Carl_Hernz) was this:
"And while I do want to thank those that were kind enough to write in their support and others who even apologized I am really bowing out now. I am sure I just caught some people on a bad day, and like Anne Frank believe that there's goodness in everybody. I'm just don't feel up to par with you fine folks, and I mean that sincerely. Thanks for the messages of welcome, but I don't like the way I have ended up feeling the short time I've been here. Perhaps I am not ready. But enjoy!"
The fact is that he came out as a strong theist and was surprised when he found out that not everybody else shared his views. -
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What's the big deal with Jesus' "sacrifice"?
by bluesapphire inwhat was the big deal with that dam tree to begin with!
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marmot
In reply to Blake Seeley, it's not so much smashing other's beliefs (I respect everyone's decisions, even my parents to stay in the Organization) and I'm an atheist myself. The negativity you see happening is a reaction to other religious-minded posters trying to convince others that their beliefs are the truth, ironically.