I brought up the dichotomy of the Old Testament baby-killer versus the loving merciful father of the NT to my Gilead-graduate uncle.
His argument was that Jehovah was protecting his special property (nation of Israel) from threats to its existence. He gave me a hypothetical situation where I was confronted with someone who is about to do deadly harm to a loved one and the only way to save that loved one is through deadly force.
It was a tough question but I still can't reconcile God's sanctioned slaughter of innocents.
marmot
JoinedPosts by marmot
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11
JWs Don't Believe in Hell...but they DO Believe in Pain & Torture!
by new boy ini remember being a pioneer and telling people how stupid they were for believing in a "burning hell.".
the analogy they told us to use was..... "if you had a small child and they were bad could you take that child and put it's hand over a flame and burn it's flesh and hold his hand there....dispite his screams and his pain?".
of course the answer was always...."no".
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marmot
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Interesting old article from Time magazine re:1975
by marmot indon't know if this has ever been discussed on here.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901074-1,00.html .
july 18, 1969 .
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marmot
Don't know if this has ever been discussed on here.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901074-1,00.html
July 18, 1969
TIME
WITNESSING THE END
" If this turns out to be the last time they all got together, the thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who gathered last week in New York City's Yankee Stadium for an international assembly will not be a bit surprised. In fact, they fully expect the cataclysm of Armageddon within the next few years. The latest calculations of this energetic, eschatology-minded sect date the end of the world in autumn, 1975.
Fearful as it may be to other religious believers, the end is a prospect that rejoices the hearts of the 323,688 U.S. members of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, as the Witnesses are officially known (worldwide member ship: 1,155,826). In 1914, according to the sect's calculations, "God's timetable" ushered in the last days. Ever since then, Witnesses have longed for the end of "this wicked system of things" and the beginning of the millennium. According to their literal interpretation of The Bible, based on Revelation 14:1,* the Lord God will then pick 144,000 Witnesses to reign with Christ in heaven. The rest will remain on earth to convert unbelievers; at the end of 1,000 years, the wicked will be annihilated, while the saved will continue to enjoy a worldly Paradise. In his address on closing, day to the week-long assembly of delegates from 78 countries, the sect's president, Pennsylvania-born Nathan H.
Knorr, confidently discussed "The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years."
Disciplined Theocracy. The New York assembly initiated a round of uplifting sessions of lectures and Bible dramas that the Witnesses will hold in 25 cities around the world, from Pomona to Paris to Papeete, between now and December. Under the supervision of a disciplined theocracy run by Knorr from Watchtower's sprawling Brooklyn head quarters, the Witnesses claim to preach their version of God's gospel in 200 lands.
More than most religious believers, the Witnesses are in almost constant trouble with the law, in the U.S. as elsewhere. They refuse military service, not on the ground of conscientious objection but on the dubious claim that every baptized member of the sect is a minister; as a result, a survey showed, 300 young American Witnesses were in jail last year for draft evasion. Currently, they are having difficulties with several African nations. In Zambia, for example, 3,700 Witness children were expelled from public schools for refusing to salute the flag, which they refuse to do anywhere because it expresses the kind of allegiance that is owed to God alone.
Return Visits. With Armageddon so near, the Witnesses waste no time on the social-betterment projects that so concern other churches, instead concentrate on dogged street-corner and door-to-door evangelism. Last year, for example, Witness ministers spent 208,666,762 hours preaching, made 89,903,578 return visits to those interested enough to buy books or magazines, but recorded only 82,842 baptisms—over 1,000 return visits for each convert.
The Witnesses have what they believe is Scriptural proof that the end is coming. For one thing, their interpretation of Biblical chronology reveals that Adam and Eve were created in the autumn of 4026 B.C., or 5,994 years ago. Linking 6,000 years to the six days of God's creation, they believe it fitting that there be a sabbath-like rest thereafter, beginning in 1975—though Witnesses cautiously avoid a flat prediction linked to that year. What is more, Christ's promise that "this generation will not pass away till all these things take place" means that the generation alive in 1914, when the last days began, will see Armageddon. As they eye the thinning ranks of that generation, Jehovah's Witnesses are well aware the time limit is running out. " -
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I adopted a very special Puppy. Pics...and do you have Tips?
by Sirona indon't say "i told you so".. .
guide dogs for the blind need people to look after puppies until they are ready to be trained as guide dogs (until approx 12 months old).
the puppy walkers (adopters) need to provide a home and preliminary training for the pup.. .
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marmot
When my dog was teething I would soak a knotted sock in water and toss it in the freezer.
House training varies depending on the temperament of the dog and can be easy or hell. My dog took a full year to finally get the idea that pooping inside was bad.
I don't know about seeing eye dogs, but I also found crate training very useful. A rule of thumb is that a pup can spend an hour in a crate for every month of age they have up to a maximum of 8. This enforces the toilet training because a dog will prefer not to soil its personal sleeping space, and it is also good for preventing damage while you are out. -
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Is "the Great Tribulation" now interchangeable with "Armageddon"?
by marmot init seems that in the latest editions of the wt "the great tribulation" is being referred to as something that only the witnesses will survive.
for example, here are some references pulled from the upcoming members-only study edition: .
page 4, par.
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marmot
Interesting, so does this mean they believe that everyone who is a part of Babylon the great will die during the great tribulation, and Armageddon is just for mopping up the atheists and unbaptized babies?
The whole idea that the United Nations is suddenly going to grow a backbone and a pair of balls and destroy all religion seems laughable in the extreme. Read "Shake hands with the Devil" by Canadian senator and retired general Romeo Dallaire on the ineptitude of the United Nations. I wouldn't be surprised if this UN "prophecy" eventually joins the 1914 generation, 1925 as the resurrection of the ancient worthies and all those other doctrinal flip-flops.
This interpretation of prophecy was first outlined in the 1960s with the original Babylon book, we're now almost 50 years down the road and it looks more and more improbable. Mark my words, there will be "new light" on this matter within the next few decades. -
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Is "the Great Tribulation" now interchangeable with "Armageddon"?
by marmot init seems that in the latest editions of the wt "the great tribulation" is being referred to as something that only the witnesses will survive.
for example, here are some references pulled from the upcoming members-only study edition: .
page 4, par.
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marmot
Tula - Uh, thanks? You sure your tinfoil hat isn't cutting off any circulation?
Can anybody get back to the topic at hand and post what the society's literature says about the distinction (if there is one) between "the great tribulation" and "Armageddon"?
I always thought there WAS a difference between the two, but the latest literature seems to indicate that the two are pretty much the same thing. -
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Is "the Great Tribulation" now interchangeable with "Armageddon"?
by marmot init seems that in the latest editions of the wt "the great tribulation" is being referred to as something that only the witnesses will survive.
for example, here are some references pulled from the upcoming members-only study edition: .
page 4, par.
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marmot
Anybody?
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Why, why and why
by spiritboi inwonder if i am the youngest around (20)....sorry, young people have many why's...
1) humans die because of adam's sin.why animals die?
were they already dying before adam sin?
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marmot
You're asking all these questions with the basic underlying assumption that the Bible is true and inspired.
What if it isn't?
Take the very simple and easily researched subject of how old the human species is. Even if you don't want to believe in evolution (for the moment), can you prove that Bible Adam and Bible Eve were really the first humans on earth just over 6,000 years ago?
I will venture that you cannot. Why? There is ample evidence of modern human occupation and activity on earth going back tens of thousands of years. In North America alone there are fossil mammoth, ice-age bison and camel skeletons with embedded spear points or evidence of butchering marks that date to over 12,000 years ago.
Where does that leave the Bible? If you want to then say that Genesis was just an allegory, you have to throw out the entire concept of original sin and the promise of salvation.
It then becomes nothing more than a very successful collection of human writings that greatly influenced modern western culture. -
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Why, why and why
by spiritboi inwonder if i am the youngest around (20)....sorry, young people have many why's...
1) humans die because of adam's sin.why animals die?
were they already dying before adam sin?
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marmot
(Duplicate post)
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Is "the Great Tribulation" now interchangeable with "Armageddon"?
by marmot init seems that in the latest editions of the wt "the great tribulation" is being referred to as something that only the witnesses will survive.
for example, here are some references pulled from the upcoming members-only study edition: .
page 4, par.
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marmot
So can somebody fire up their WT library cd-rom and post the definitions as presented in the Insight books? I've only got a mac now so I can't use my copy and I don't remember where I stored all my old books.
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Is "the Great Tribulation" now interchangeable with "Armageddon"?
by marmot init seems that in the latest editions of the wt "the great tribulation" is being referred to as something that only the witnesses will survive.
for example, here are some references pulled from the upcoming members-only study edition: .
page 4, par.
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marmot
It seems that in the latest editions of the WT "the Great Tribulation" is being referred to as something that only the witnesses will survive.
For example, here are some references pulled from the upcoming members-only study edition:
Page 4, par. 1 - "We have a serious responsibility towards the people around us. The decisions they make now will mean life or death during 'the great tribulation.' (Rev 7:14)"
Page 5, par. 7 - "But those who remain in Babylon the Great and who continue to reject Bible standards will not be spared through 'the great tribulation.' (Rev 7:14)"
Page 23, par. 14 - "Hence, after 1935 the thrust of the preaching work turned to the gathering of a 'great crowd,' those whom the apostle John saw in vision and who would survive 'the great tribulation.' (Rev 7:9,10,14)"
ibid, par. 16 - "We can also believe the prophetic Word that the ever-growing 'great crowd' will prove itself faithful. Soon, it will 'come out of the great tribulation' brought upon Satan's world and will joyfully move on into God's new world."
Page 26, par. 10 - "We know that Jehovah will do as he has promised--preserve the great crowd alive through the great tribulation."
It was always my understanding that the great tribulation was a time of testing before the war of Armageddon, for witnesses to prove their faith and endurance to god. It was always Armageddon that was supposed to be the big slaughter that only witnesses escaped.
Can someone post the definitions of both these terms as they appear in the Insight books?