Oh, and when was Eve created? Here it is.
(Insight on the Scriptures, WTBTS 1988 Vol. 2, p. 899) Seth
The son of Adam and Eve born when Adam was 130 years old. Eve named him Seth . . .
(Aid to Bible Understanding, WTBTS, 1971 ed. p.538) EVE
At the age of 130 another son was born to her. Eve called his name Seth, . . .
Adam and Eve were created the same year according to the Society.
garybuss
JoinedPosts by garybuss
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41
1975---- DID IT REALLY BOTHER YOU?
by minimus inon the net you see many talk about 1975 and how it affected so many.
obviously, some left the organization when nothing happened in 1975. were you personally affected by 1975?
has the fixing of dates been a major reason for your disappointment with the witnesses?
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garybuss
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Hatred Approved by Jehovah
by jgnat ina jw quote disturbed me.go back to my idea of hating false religion.
my opinion was to hate those religions and not mine... but to have a clean conscience and to hate what god hates.
a real hatred will make you exercise the personality that god wants in the new system that will last forever.
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garybuss
THE GODLY QUALITY OF HATE(The Watchtower, July 15, 1974, p. 442)You have seen the benefit of godly love, but do you know how to hate? These very strong words are an expression of godly hate, (small g god theirs) and you too must have this quality to be pleasing to God. Hate causes a feeling of disgust to well up inside you. You loathe, abhor, despise the object of your hatred. Godly hatred never has as its object our Christian brothers, no matter how imperfect
(The Watchtower; July 15, 1974 p.442)
Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovahs organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovahs feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they feel a loathing toward those who have made themselves Gods enemies,
(The Watchtower October 1, 1993 p.19)
Jehovahs Witnesses Make Hate A Religion (Saturday Evening Post Sept. 14, 1940 p.18)
WILL HATRED EVER END And even though it may be unreasonable, or crazy, the hatred is often directed against a whole group (The Watchtower June 15, 1995 p.3)
The doctrines of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy of Jurisdiction and the pratices in which that organization indulges show that she is the chief servant of the Devil and the arch enemy of God.From all the evidence the conclusion is irresistible that the Roman Catholic Hierarchy organization serves the Devil and is therefore the enemy of God, the enemy of man, and the very personification of unrighteousness. (Enemies WTB&TS 1937 J.F. Rutherford p.286)
CATHOLIC RELIGION DEMONISM (Religion, WTB&TS 1940, J.F. Rutherford, p.55)
Martyred by martyrs, Dennis Ryans head was bashed by Witnesses canes in a riot at their (Witnesses) anti-Catholic rally. (Caption under photo of battered Ryan with bandaged head)
(Saturday Evening Post Sept. 14, 1940)
There is a difference, however between hating the wrong and hating the person who commits the wrong.
(The Watchtower, June 15, 1995, p.7)
in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked.Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah,
(The Watchtower July, 15, 1961, p.420)
We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as lothsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on his beautiful earth.
12 What do you do with anything loathsome or repugnant that you detest and abhor? The answer is simple. You get away from it or remove it from your presence. You do not want to have anything at all to do with it. This must be exactly our attitude toward the haters of Jehovah.
(The Watchtower October 1, 1952, p.599)
Yes, the international society of Jehovahs Witnesses is living proof that hatred can be abolished. It is a foreglimpse of a worldwide program to eliminate hatred and its causes.
(The Watchtower, June 15, 1995, p.8)
More than that, we want to hate those who willfully show themselves haters of Jehovah, haters of what is good.
(The Watchtower June 15, 1980, p.8)
Obviously God hates evil things, and his servants rightly hate them too.
(Awake June 22, 1984, p.5)
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a manslayer, and you know that no manslayer has everlasting life remaining in him.
(1 JOHN 3:15 The New World Translation by WTB&TS) -
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Non believers in god please.
by Monster ina poster( don't ask who said, it i don't want argument with the person) here implied a while ago that many of the xjw here no longer believe in god because they cannot accept the "fact" that they willl be destroyed during armageddon.
in other words you are looking for ways to discredit that you ( you.
meaning anyone) will be destoryed.
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garybuss
I wonder if Rutherford didn't have it right after all, "Religion is a snare and a racket!".
Hahaha I have hired James Randi to check out all miracles before I believe them.
Interesting how Jehovah's Witnesses went from being the biggest critic of religion on the planet to trying to become the biggest religion on the planet all without even seeing anything unusual about that little switch in priorities.
Best wishes and happy everything.
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41
1975---- DID IT REALLY BOTHER YOU?
by minimus inon the net you see many talk about 1975 and how it affected so many.
obviously, some left the organization when nothing happened in 1975. were you personally affected by 1975?
has the fixing of dates been a major reason for your disappointment with the witnesses?
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garybuss
Current Witnesses know the Society expected Armageddon in 1975 and led members in error but current Witnesses I have talked to about it feel satisfied that the Society has done a sufficient job of explaining their behavior and have admitted their error and have, in their opinions, made amends satisfactorily. They wish to close the book on a mistake forgiven. They are like children who desire a relationship with their parents even though those parents are prone to error, human mistakes and occasional bad behavior.
To others, the Society is a social club and those Witnesses are basically skeptical, not at all religious and view meetings as social appointments and service as exercise and a requirement for continued acceptance in the club. Many are habitual Witnesses. Of the current Witnesses, most do not even like critical thinking and can't understand why we do it. They see critical thinking as a flaw needing correction.
Those Witnesses have a sense of honor, a loyalty. They are comfortable. They can't see how their lives would be better without involvement, at some level, in the Watch Tower Society.
Their children who quit attending meetings and quit service and got disfellowshipped or decided to announce disassociation, were always dispensable to the long time Witness parents. They were always feeling, deep down, a sort of disloyalty to the Society for having the children in the first place. The Society was right, in their minds, this was not the time to have children. Look how they turned out. If we lived in ancient Israel, we would kill them and we would cast the first stone. They are easy for the parents to shun.
The phone sets on the hall table. The mother sits and rocks while the high school picture is still on the same shelf. She never looks at it. The father has the TV on with the sound off, a half a beer on the table, while he reads the Watchtower for tomorrow's meeting. No thoughts, no feelings for unfaithful adult children.
Current Witnesses mostly do not ever talk about 1975. It is not important to them. It is only important to former Witnesses.
gb
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41
1975---- DID IT REALLY BOTHER YOU?
by minimus inon the net you see many talk about 1975 and how it affected so many.
obviously, some left the organization when nothing happened in 1975. were you personally affected by 1975?
has the fixing of dates been a major reason for your disappointment with the witnesses?
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garybuss
libra spirit wrote:
Did 1975 bother me? It most definitly did bother me. Instead of everyone being involved in something worthwhile, we were all eagerly awaiting the end of this wicked old system of things. We wasted all our time knocking on doors spreading hype and didn't really accomplish anything to be proud of some 27 years later. We didn't do one charitable work, we didn't heal one person, we didn't love the sick or help the needy, we didn't even watch out for each other. We didn't save one soul, we didn't live forever on this earth. We were lost in a vision of granduer, a lie. It was a waste of time!
Best paragraph I ever read on the subject. Thanks!
gb
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ARE YOU UPSET THAT YOU DIDN"T GO TO COLLEGE?
by minimus ini have read of some people's bitterness because they were denied the opportunity to go to college.
during the 60's and 70's the society really discouraged any education other than what was necessary.
since the end was so near, especially around 1975, anybody that decided to go to "higher education" was considered very weak and unbalanced.
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garybuss
I am not upset that I didn't go to college at the age my classmates did. I am disappointed in my parents for their prolific refusal to prepare me or even support those who would have prepared me for a life as an adult.
In elementary school I was drug out Tuesday evening at 6:30 till 9:00 pm or later for pre study fundraising and literature study. Wednesday night it was out again for 2 hours for back call night and more fundraising and recruiting. Thursday night it was out at 6:30 again and back after 10:00 pm for the ministry school and the service meeting with a smoke break between for the smokers.
I went to school most days with homework not done and I did badly in school at grade reporting time. I was told I would never have to go to high school or get married or have to raise children in this old world and wouldn't it be wonderful to be in the new world and to be smart automatically . . . so couldn't I see there was to need to miss service or meetings in order to do well in school now . . . but meetings and service was the important thing because Armageddon was so close. 1955 I was in 5th grade, scared to death of god and armageddon and expecting to die any day.
In high school it was more of the same and more pressure to dispense with school and extracurricular activities for unpaid book sales and meeting attendance. I was told I would never graduate from high school by my parents and group members as well, so when I was in my senior year I flunked out on purpose so I would not graduate so they could be right. My teachers all told me I was smart and could not figure out why I did not try at all in school.
Every thing I did in life was a conflict in that my parents and the Jehovah's Witnesses had told me I would not have to do it, like getting married, seeing my first wife die, having children, now getting old. Every single thing they told me was a lie.
Now I am 58 and my parents are old and still waiting for the Watch Tower Corporation's promises to be delivered to them and they have rejected me because I reminded them of all their false promises to me and because I left the delusion they call truth.
In order to survive, I had to overcome denial of living itself. I was prepared to be rocketed into the new world or die at armageddon but I was not prepared to live a full and long life as a member of society. I was lucky that I witnessed the 1975 fiasco in my 31st year and realized no miracle was going to kill me any time soon and that I had to hustle and catch up and go to work.
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41
1975---- DID IT REALLY BOTHER YOU?
by minimus inon the net you see many talk about 1975 and how it affected so many.
obviously, some left the organization when nothing happened in 1975. were you personally affected by 1975?
has the fixing of dates been a major reason for your disappointment with the witnesses?
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garybuss
The 1975 date was presented by the Watch Tower Publishing Company as a date clearly taught in the Bible. The apocalyptic expectation was presented as a membership promotion campaign. It was hammered in press, at meetings, promoted extensively at conventions, and was especially a straw of hope for the sick and dying Witnesses. They rejected medical treatment, went against medical advice to quack vitamin treatment doctors in Texas and Mexico in hopes they would be experiencing a miracle in 1975. Of course they are silent now because they all died waiting for the intervention that never came.
The date or the failure did not anger me. What angered me was the Society's dishonesty by denying they had ever made the claims in the first place. At a circuit assembly in 1975, the District Servant said, "Brothers, if you heard it, you did not hear it here!". *That* angered me.
Now that issue is among the least of my concerns with the Watch Tower Corporations.
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even if the "new system" never comes
by ConnieLynn inlast night i called to do the "check-in" thing on my mom.
she had just been to the assembly and she was all fired up and decided to give me an earful.
apparently, at the assembly all in attendance were told that "this is it" the end is nigh and they should do all they can to prepare for the impending destruction about to befall everyone.
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garybuss
When I wrote: "Many of them are lazy and it is work to be free and to be responsible for my own life and my own behavior.", I mean this.
When I was a Witness I was lazy and irresponsible in accepting all presented to me by the group leaders. Some of my acceptance was by silent disagreement. I revered the group book publishers and foolishly protected their outrageous claims of appointment to authority. I advertised their current predictions and defended their past failures.
It was easy for me to thoughtlessly do the meetings and fundraising. These were rituals and comfortable. When I was a Witness I rarely read a book cover to cover and if I did it was with an attitude of acceptance. When I researched the Watch Tower Corporation and religion and theism, I read over 200 books and wrote volumes. I wrote a thesis on every subject imaginable. They are in binders and take up a good deal of shelf space.
I accumulated a Watch Tower Publishing Corporation library and read and researched that for myself. I read all Russell's writings as well as all of Rutherford's except a few booklets I do not have. I studied line by line and compared the different versions of the Let God Be True book that was used to indoctrinate me as a adolescent.
I studied psychology, sociology and philosophy as well as studied the history of the Hebrew people, Judaism, manners, rituals, customs and festivals both historical and modern. I interviewed priests, rabbis, and I tried to interview and investigate the Jehovah's Witnesses directly but they would not allow me to do that.
I read the Koran and the Book Of The Dead. I researched the history of the book called The Bible as well as the concept of god and superstitions of all sorts, hypnosis, NLP, and the psychology, practices and principles of influence and persuasion.
I realized there would be no magic to rescue me from the reality of aging and retirement so I went to school and studied and worked in business to help educate my sons and provide for my wife and myself. I set up retirement plans and accounts and have spent time helping others do the same.
I studied the english language and looked up words I had been using and guessing at the meanings like *condone* and *apologize*. I took every one of my core beliefs that I could identify and set out to prove or dis-prove them. Many were flawed. Some were dead men's delusions that I had accepted as fact. Some were fine and others I have set aside, not to use until I have time to evaluate them.
All this has helped me to become skeptical of miracles that I have not witnessed myself, extraordinary claims made without extraordinary proof, and all claims of superhuman powers.
One of my most fascinating studies was the study of magic and illusions. I can easily be fooled by what I see with my own eyes. The lesson is this: What I see is not always the reality. What other people tell me is often wrong. My perception is often wrong. What other people believe has no relevance at all in my life. Misplaced trust has caused disaster for untold millions.
Best wishes to all.
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Baptism - The Issue of Consent - for children
by Lady Lee inthe issue of consent .
the issue of whether a person has consented to a particular action is a core part of our social relationships whether they be personal or group interactions.
to participate in any social relationship a person must on some level consent to that participation.
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garybuss
The problem with it all still can be reduced to the snubbing/shunning requirement. If there was no shunning, we all would not be writing here about baptism. The baptism is just a part of the shunning practice. The shunning practice is the whip used to control the slaves.
The only enforcement a high control group has is the compliance of it's members and their willingness to shun and snub those they can hurt by doing it.
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even if the "new system" never comes
by ConnieLynn inlast night i called to do the "check-in" thing on my mom.
she had just been to the assembly and she was all fired up and decided to give me an earful.
apparently, at the assembly all in attendance were told that "this is it" the end is nigh and they should do all they can to prepare for the impending destruction about to befall everyone.
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garybuss
It's much more that a religion with my parents and I suspect many other long time Witnesses. It's a habit, a community, a society, a culture, a structure, it's comfortable to them. Many of them are lazy and it is work to be free and to be responsible for my own life and my own behavior. For me reality has had worries I never had as a JW. It also was work to learn how to live in the real world. I had to learn manners and honesty and ethics and patience and acceptance of so much that did not seem right but that was real like death and pain and hunger.
For many Witnesses, the group and the activities is their hope and their purpose for living. It is their life.
gb