any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
HG we agree about Saudi Arabia too, though the US will not take action against it, though why not impose some sanctions?
BTW I have never said that i believe that there will be a Sino - US war, my point was that Iran has been supported by it.
Mary Dejevsky in the article above makes many of the points I have already made and shows why misreading Iran would be very dangerous, as was invading the Westward looking Iraq was.
David
any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
My point about China, is that the Chinese may well support Iran for a number of reasons, just as the US supported Saddam, that would be very dangerous if they did.
You need to separate the rhetoric from intention of Iranian regime, and if that is not possible, take precautions, as Obama has done, in placing the missile carriers in the Gulf, this sends a very strong message to Iran. What more do you think Obama should do, unless you think a tactical srtike is called for?
Your enemies also hailed from Saudi Arabia, any thoughts there?
Do not forget that the Iranian regime actually helped the US invade Afghanistan, their loathing of the Taliban matches the US, except that they are at least consistent, in that they have always loathed them, unlike the US whose allies they were.
David
any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
And America is not going to war with China either.
Why the need to go on the attack all the time btw? War rarely if ever achieves its objective.
I agree with you about Marxists and dictators , different sides of the same coin. That is why I believe that the west can and does show the way forward.
David
any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
hamilcar- spot on.
Happy Guy I agree with much of what you say in the last 3 paragraphs of your post, the difference between is that I honestly believe that the Iranians have the will and the courage to change, and will on this we differ.That accounts for the ranting of the hardliners ( at least in part) on this we differ too.
Obama has been decisive in putting in placing the missile shield at four strategic points, that sends a very clear message imo.
As for the Chinese -yes your military is superior - for now, and i hope it stays that way too, though I do not think it will.
BTW no i do not count Kurds as Iranians, neither do they. Kurdistan covers parts of Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran. Therein lies another part of the jigsaw, which the UK, in part helped create in the days if its empire.
David
any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
Thank you Freydo for your post, this demonstrates that the moderates are powerful and can win.
Israel will deal with any Iranian nuclear threat on its own, with little reference to anyone.
David
any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
We agree on many things Happy Guy. Yes America can annihilate Iran, and?? What is the end goal?? The US can win ideologically much more easily than militarily.
The bellicosity of people like you encourage the hardliners.
Obama should give more succor to moderates imo. BTW he is not my hero, just the right guy.
How many Iranians do you know BTW Happy GUY?? My friend still has relatives there, so is well informed, his Brother in law was tortured and killed for speaking out. His opinion carries weight.
You are wrong to be so sanguine about China as well, remember the Iran - Iraq war, who armed Iran - China? And China is far more powerful now.
David
any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
Happy Guy, you are wrong, I would be viewed to the right of centre here, I just happen to think that Obama is the right person to lead the US at the moment, both Nationally and internationally.
I thought that Khomeini orchestrated his anointing as the Heir Apparent whilst exiled in France, so that when he arrived it was a done deal, I can see you know better, so I will defer to you.
Agree with you about Carter, he was weak and vacillating. Interestingly one of the student leaders who lead the invasion of the US embassy was ... Ahmadinejad.
My point about Bush is that he won the war but failed to win the peace, as he patently did not understand Iran and its position, he was guilty of hubris.
The US can take on Iran militarily, no question, it can not win a war with them though, unless they wish to annihilate them as they will be formidable in defence. Also to be considered is how China will react.
The actions of Obama (as highlighted by lwt) are to my mind the right way to proceed, ie carrot and a big stick.
Interestingly I spoke to an Iranian friend of mine today, his viewpoint is similar to mine, that the moderates in Iran should be encouraged, and the hardliners discouraged, by such things as sanctions This Obama gets, and seems to be implementing. He also thinks that there is a groundswell of younger people that want change, and are westward looking, the west has an opportunity to have a positive influence, and to ameliorate the mistakes of the past.
any of the rhetoric, demands, conciliation, etc., etc., remind you of anything?
wasn't this all how this war started in iraq?
(or the justification for it, anyway?
Happy Guy, the Shah's regime was supported by the West and was largely Totalitarian, that is what enabled the Ayatollah; to overthrow him, and yes I agree with you that France should have behaved far better; the US as well under presidents of both political parties included.
Iran could argue quite cogently for nuclear weapons, they don't. I like others here ( and has been stated) believe that nuclear power is being used by Iran as a bargaining chip.
Iraq is a mess, and Bush ( with encouragement from Blair, a socialist) should never have gone in there, taking military action against Iran would be far more costly in all ways.
Iran needs western expertise, big time; the young want regime change big time, leave them to find their own destiny, and encourage the moderates and west looking like Mousavi, that would yield far more results for all concerned. Reread the words of Kadivar posted by BTS above.
David
it's a shame those of you outside the uk probably can't view the following link:.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qm86v/qi_xl_series_7_greats/.
jehovah's witness get a prominent mention at the start of a popular comedy quiz show here in the uk, hosted by stephen fry, called qi.
Thanks Slim, that is why comedy can be so powerful, as It puts beliefs under such withering scrutiny. It was funny, I love the program
a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
Can we get this on I player?
David
