Posts by Gedanken

19

What's Wrong With Having Hope?

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

i have noticed for some time now, that when anyone mentions having hope in something said by the bible, some come forth and start asking pointed questions designed to denigrate that hope.

if one says they hope there is a god, someone else will come on ask how could that be because of all the ills in the world.

if it is said that one hopes the earth will be restored by god, another will come on and start asking what about lions being vegetarians, and eating birds and mosquitoes and such.

Gedanken

Dakota,

In itself there's nothing wrong with hope - it's a very human feeling. However, it can lead to problems; e.g., someone could quit their job and become a gambler in the hope of making a killing, or join a nutcase religion that fosters unrealistic expectations that are couched as being "hope." Also, please bear in bind that if one expresses one's hopes on a forum such as this, then many will disagree as well as agree, for discussion is the point of a forum. Presumably, if one felt 100% confident in one's hope(s) then there would be no need to discuss it or them in a forum, unless one was trying to get others to subscribe to that hope. It's one thing to hope that nothing bad happens in the sense of not wanting bad to happen, quite another to hope that stupid or irrational actions or beliefs will not have deleterious or unexepected effects somewhere down the line.

So all in all it's a complex subject - also, if my "hope" happens to be that there is no God, no driving force at all, and I were to express that here, then would, or should, that go uncontested?

I don't think it's cynical to have spirited discussions about this topic - after all if our beliefs are robust then they can stand discussion, and if our hopes, however whimsical, or not, are useful emotionally then equally they can withstand discussion. Such hopes reflect intrinsic parts of our own personalities and while others amy argue with them, they are what they are.....

Hope that makes sense :-)

Gedankdn

62

I FEEL so bad!!!!

by SpiceItUp in

jw
friends

.

i just got my cat neutered..... i know its the responsible thing to do...but i still feel horrible about it!.

Gedanken

Don't feel bad - it's one less thing for him/her to worry about. In fact, a lobotomy and that makes almost anyone feel a lot happier.

Gedanken

Edited by - Gedanken on 17 July 2002 22:51:52

52

BRITISH MP CALLS FOR GOV. INQUIRY into abuse

by hawkaw in

bill bowen just emailed this to me and i wasn't too sure if had been posted.

this is very significant.

if anyone has helen's email or the email of the minister she wrote too asking for the enquiry, please post them.. hawk.

Gedanken

Helen Clark can be emailed from this page:

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/alms.htm#c

14

ruse

by teejay in

for some reason, and i don't know why, the bbc program has evoked feelings that the dateline program never did.

i think it must have been the cops.. i was raised with few advantages.

single (black) mother, raising six children on her own.... no father.

Gedanken

teejay,

Thanks so much for posting that - Panorama evoked similar feelings for me too. But, maybe such trials help us to be better, more thoughtful people. Being a nerd isn't all bad - after all, it makes us think. Sometimes I am glad I was a JW - after all, many people go through life caring only about soaps or money or a new car etc. What matters is where we go from here. Even a sham and a ruse can have its silver lining if we just look for it - e.g., your posts have surely helped many people to put things into perspective....certainly I have valued your insights and honesty.

Again, thanks for such an insightful and thought-provoing post,

love,

Gedanken

13

BBC LIVE Email ForumStarts In 30 Minutes!

by Englishman in

jw
friends

here's the addy, go to forum section pronto!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/.

englishman.

Gedanken

Based on past Forums it looks like we have to wait till they put the video up. That's a pity, although I suppose we can still email questions and hope they get used.

G.

7

Another spin on the "2 witnesses"

by Lady Lee in

16 but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

ok you go once and try to talk to him and he doesn't listen.

then you go back and "take with thee one or two more".

Gedanken

In Israel two witnesses to a crime were not needed - just sufficient evidence. In the 1st century the instructions were relating primarily to civil disputes between brothers. The admonition not to take your brother to court obviously doesn't apply when a crime has been committed, as stewart is pointing out. If a person is raped that is a crime against the person but also a crime against the state. If the rapist were to be reported by a third party then the victim really has no capacity to "drop charges" - all they could do would be to deny the charges which would be lying. Absent a third party then the victim has the choice, of course, of whether to puruse the matter but, nevertheless, the crime is mandated as such by the state. There is no comparison with civil cases.

This all becomes quite obvious when one considers the case of murder. Imagine that just one person witnessed an elder murder someone and then the elder managed to get away with the crime. If, down the road, it came to light that the elder did the deed, and that the witness to it kept quiet, what happens to the witness?

The 2 witnesses ruling has to do only with matters over which the congregation has authority which does not include crimes. Finally, it should be pointed out that the Law was abolished and cannot be used as a basis for the policy - even the new "Worship" book recognizes that by omitting the chapter on what we can learn from the Law that was contained in its forerunner, the "United in Worship" book. So it all hinges on the NT verses which obviously relate only to non criminal matters.

The Society's response to Panorama is total bunk - by selecting an extreme example - a 16 year old having sex with a 15 year old 20 years ago - they hope to deflect attention from the real problem; 50 and 60 year olds having sex with 6 and 7 year olds right now. It's disgusting and criminal.

Gedanken

9

Challenge to the Asshole formerly known as Quantum

by Gedanken in

jw
friends

quantum,.

let's agree to destruct the mormom religion in 10 minutes.

then we'll do the dubs in 5.. .

Gedanken

Quantum,

After I presented a Mormon colleague with a few observations about his religion - he had approached me to try to convert me - his reaction was much like yours. Essentially he said "I don't have time to discuss it now." And he never has had ever since. The best I could get out of him was that a tapir is actually a type of horse and that cranberries are grapes. Or some such nonsense.

Your name is quite fitting, though - the quantum uncertainty principle, no?

Gedanken

9