hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
Thank you all for the encouragements!
And thank you to those who have taken the time to reply to Reinaa (debator).
It has spared me time which I could dedicate to my FIRST grandson, Evan, just born 2 weeks ago!
We are finally grandparents.
I will try to participate more often to this English forum, which I really enjoy a lot.
Cheers to all!
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
Yes I do understand French and I really liked your Video. Congrats!
Any chance of building up a cooperation between us in French?
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
… yes, I still have my website, but it is basically in Italian, with some French and just a very few English pages. Here it is if you are interested >>> http://www.testimoni-di-geova.info/
I am currently revising my site, and I intend to expand the French and English languages.
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
Hi LaGere and welcome!
Yes, I am out entirely. After fading away for 5 years the Organization decided that my status was a threat for the bros, so they tried to find faults with me. I was asked to appear in front of judicial committee, which I didn’t, and after a second request invited me again, but for an unknown reason, they didn’t even wait for me to RECEIVE the registered letter, and announced in the congregation that I was not a JW anymore.
I didn’t leave because I found something better, but just because I finally realized that the claims of being God’s Organization were not justified. If they were not what they pretended, then ALL their teachings had no real godly basis. It was just as 2+2 make 4, but I was too blind to recognize it.
The moment I proved to myself that they could in no way personalize the FDS (Faithful and Discrete Slave) or the sole organ used by God to communicate with human beings today, I prepared a letter explaining my position, with two exhibits one delegitimizing the JW baptism and the other delegitimizing the FDS. I knew the elders were looking for a good reason to expel me. I was therefore ready to put my strategy into effect:
1) send out the letter to over 300 addresses of bros in Switzerland, France and Italy I have known and worked with during my theocratic career.
2) Organized and invited Barbara Anderson for a European tour in Paris, Rome, Geneva, Barcelona, Edinburg and two popular summer beach locations in Italy to deliver two talks, on Pedophilia and the dangers of becoming a JW, which I had the opportunity to translate to the French and Italian audiences.
3) Developed and put on-line my website, basically in Italian with documents, experiences and reflections around the WT
What do I mean by “the true face of the Organization” ?
Well, there are two aspects to this question. One is aimed at the current JW, the other those who are not JW but who may have an interest in becoming one of the JW, or have a relative or friend with the JW or simply want to know more about the WT.
The “hidden face” of the WT to the JW is very simply reveling that they are NOT Jehovah’s Organization, using their own arguments and publications. Don Cameron did a very good job in this respect with his book “Captive of a Concept”. I was surprised, reading the book, that he came to my same conclusions using the same arguments long before me!
The “hidden face” of the WT to the non-JW is about the dangers represented by the Organization to those who end up making part of it. In particular: life threatening teachings (blood, vaccines, organ transplants …) human rights transgressions (university degree instruction, shunning, voting …) double standards (UN) and other staff.
Mine is an information mission in all ways possible.
One of my last initiatives has been approaching and working with a national TV channel in preparing an hour program on the JW issues with children education, psychological problems, and pedophilia.
Barbara Anderson and Bill Bowen will be part of the program.
Unfortunately, the program will be in French, but I will try to get the authorization to translate it into English an Italian for a wider distribution.
Well, hope that the above may help you with your sibling.
Roberto/Nick
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
Hi DaCheech,
I’m curious to know the staff we have in common …
Have you been brought up in Egypt? Or have you spent time in Switzerland where we have been living for over 45 years? Or was it in Italy?
Maybe we have some more staff in common … but from a so called “theocratic” viewpoint.
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
Ding to answer your questions:
- I have been a JW for … 59 years, of which about 30 years as an elder.
- I was not disturbed by the blood transfusion rule. I accepted it and taught it and imposed it in judicial committees. I realized that something was fishing when the question of “blood fractions” was introduced, without any scriptural basis.
In fact I left the organization only after I have had a bad experience with the Swiss branch.
In my last role, I was the Presiding Overseer of a BOE when some elders started to be critical of my family under the CO pressure. After a conflict period of about one year, I have been openly slandered in writing by 4 other elders. As I had the required two witnesses to prove my allegations, I appealed to the branch office in Thun, but, in spite of a one year investigation and over 100 pages correspondence with the branch, they didn’t act the way they were expected, which is the way they teach the elders to treat judicial affairs. I stated wonder WHY, and that is when I finally discovered that there is no factual basis to pretend that the leaders of the Watchtower are the FDS.
I am out now since November 2004, actively busy unveiling the Org true face, but basically in Italian and French, and from time to time in English in this forum.
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
Sorry, I was too quick in submitting my post.
I wanted first to explain what it is all about before submitting it, but … here I am now.
Well, it is about a friend of mine whom I lost sight of 50 years ago when we were both young Jehovah’s Witnesses in Alexandria Egypt.
Because of the political climate, westerns gradually left the country. We headed for Italy and my friend’s family for Australia.
After a number of decades, I once received an email from him. At that time I was still “faithful”. We exchanged our experiences and the usual jokes for a while.
¨When I left the Organization, I ended up losing sight of him again, until recently he sent me some emails with district assembly experiences, and other personal staff. I replied to him, but avoided talking about the “Truth”, not to bother him with my new position.
However a couple of month ago, he sent me one of these usual email which are a kind of spam, but which regarded a very delicate subject: they inhuman way some Muslims extremist interpret their Koran, punishing young kids with violence. In this particular case, he attached pictures of a probably 5 years old boy who had stolen some goods, and for punishment they lay him on the street and they had a truck run on his little arm, damaging it for life.
His comment was: “ The SOB's responsible for this sinful crime should be sentenced to getting deep fried in a giant deep fryer in hell!!!!!!!!!!!!! ”
The pictures were accompanied by the slogan: No religion can ever justify such hideous crimes....
I replied telling him to be cautious:
“We should be careful ... the thought is not different from what is happening in our religion ...
In the name of a misinterpretation of the Bible text, we, Jehovah witnesses are ready to "murder" our kids by refusing them, when absolutely required, a blood transfusion!
Fanaticism is the same in any religion, but sometimes we only see it in others, not when it affects us.
Cheers.”
After that, I got a laconic message from him, not a message asking WHY I made my statement, but one which sounded more like a threat:
“Hi Roberto from what you have written to me, are you still in the truth? please let me know. Xxxx”
Since I sent him the email you can read as the introduction to this discussion, I have heard nothing from him anymore!
You guess why ….
Roberto & Nick!
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
hi xxxx,.
to tell you the truth, i feel very deceived from the way the organization has been acting in the last years.. .
----- original message ----- from: xxxxxsent: wednesday, august 18, 2010 1:04 amsubject: fw: there are no words to describe this!!!!!......
Hi Xxxx,
To tell you the truth, I feel very deceived from the way the Organization has been acting in the last years.
Unfortunately, contrary to my expectations, the Organization has been acting in a very arrogant way, treating the witnesses as ignorant and babies without feeling any responsibility for the impact of their decisions and interpretations imposed on us.
We owe our loyalty to Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ, not to men.
In no way would have Jehovah nor Jesus treated us the way the Organization has. Unfortunately, we have been trained and induced to accept from the Organization what we would NEVER accept from anyone else, be it our fleshly family nor any other best friend. Do they really merit our loyalty? Did the kings of Israel and the sacerdotal class of the time merit the loyalty of the faithful believers of Jehovah? Jeremiah and the very small group of people who still put their loyalty in Jehovah, were bold in condemning God’s Organization of that time, because of its behavior, its bloodshed in the name of God. Jeremiah had no fear in condemning the king who reigned in “Jehovah’s name”, but was not living anymore up to Jehovah’s standards.
Twice in its lifetime, Jehovah’s Organization, Israel, was condemned and destroyed by its very own God, because it had forgotten the basic of the worship, love, humility, caring for the poor, the widows and the orphans.
There is therefore no ground for believing that Jehovah has changed.
In no way, I believe, is he ready to forget the wrongdoings of those he had named as “his people” or who pretend to be his people, but then act in a way that neither Jehovah nor Christ would ever act.
On the question of the blood transfusions, for which thousands of faithful Jehovah’s witnesses, and in particular, their innocent children, have died I would just like to recall that the prohibition is not spelled out in the Bible but stems out of an interpretation of a scripture which only addresses the habits of the time (eating blood and strangled animals), and like any other “interpretation” is subject to be WRONG. With the introduction of the “blood fractions” approach, which sanctifies the use of certain fractions and condemns others with NO BIBLICAL BASIS, the death of many faithful individuals who, before that, could have been saved by the use of “sanctified” fractions, has become a bloodshed! This is where the Organization acts in a way contrary to Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ.
Our Leaders, the Governing Body, in fact Fred Franz at his time in 1952 or so, sentenced that accepting a blood transfusion was violating Acts 15:28-29, which DOES NOT DISCUSS THIS PRACTICE, but stems out of a “human interpretation”.
On the other hand, a clear and incontrovertible command such as “ the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work ” (Exadus 20:10), upon which there are no discussions nor any need for interpretations, Jesus had no hesitation in saying “ “Hypocrites, does not each one of YOU on the sabbath untie his bull or his ass from the stall and lead it away to give it drink? ” (Luc 13:15), to justify his saving lives on a sabbath day which was criticized by the clergy of that time.
How can this Organization condemn the use of blood transfusions, used to SAVE LIVES, same as Jesus did, based on a human interpretation of a scripture which does NOT address the pretended issue of it? And, after having let thousands of people die for it, change the interpretation allowing, without any scriptural basis, some fractions of it to be freely used and other not? Can’t you see the inconsistency of this deadly teaching?
This was just to tell why I am not ready to condemn people who simply follow their leaders without thinking, committing atrocious acts such as the one depicted in the series of pictures you sent me, believing that they are simply following “God’s word”, otherwise I would have to condemn all those unfortunate and faithful witnesses who have died or let their kids die, on the basis of a human interpretation of what has been sold as “God’s word”.
The same is true of organ transplant. Remember, you and me were faithful witnesses when the Organization interpreted the Bible from a human standpoint and prohibited the use of organ transplant, condemning it as “cannibalism”, and letting many DIE because of their wrong interpretation, or, for those who were “not faithful and loyal” and who accepted organ transplant, were disfellowshipped, cutting them off from the love and attention of their own family members and friends, without any consideration and respect for the human right as defined in the Human Rights Act of December 1948, subscribed by all civil nations, but our Organization, but to which we appeal when our Organizational interests are at stake.
Not to speak of the endless deceptions on the other major teachings, such as the meaning of the “generation”, which has changed SIX times since its first interpretation, giving one interpretation today, and just the OPPOSITE, the next day to finally come back to its first ideas. In no way would God deceive his people in this way.
The “generation” issue, like many others, have been thrown at us just to put the right pressure to continue to work for them, not for God.
Unfortunately, our parents have died in the expectation that the end would come NOW, meaning YESTERDAY and the day before.
Why all this pressure, if Jehovah knows the hearts and that he will resurrect not only the “faithful to him”, as we try to be, but even those who acted against him, according to the Organization own interpretation, such as Korah, Dathan and Abiram and even Pharaoh …
My dear Xxxx, I don’t want to threaten your faith in this Organization. You are free to continue to accept it, even if the evidence shows that it is ONLY human.
As far as I am concerned, if I have to give my loyalty and faith these would be to God and his Son, not to a human Organization who pretends to have received God’s approval, without being able to give any evidence of it, except its own selfish self-certification!
The real question, I believe, is not if I am "still in the 'truth'", as if a constantly changing interpretaion is true all the time, even when it now states the contrary of what was tought yesterday, but if I am still a right person, trying to act in the way God has tought me. In this case, my answer is YES!
Apart from that, I hope that your health is OK and that you are enjoying your grandchildren Jehovah has given you, as I will soon do, with my first grandchild.
Agape, Roberto.
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE THIS!!!!!.....
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:08:50 -0700
Hi [name removed] from what you have written to me, are you still in the truth? please let me know. Xxxx
----- Original Message ----- From:[name removed] To: xxxxxxx@bigpond.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:30 AM Subject: RE: THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE THIS!!!!!..... We should be careful ... the thought is not different from what is happening in our religion ...
In the name of a misinterpretation of the Bible text, we, Jehovah witnesses are ready to "murder" our kids by refusing them, when absolutely required, a blood transfusion!
Fanaticism is the same in any religion, but sometimes we only see it in others, not when it affects us.
Cheers.
[name removed]
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fw: THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE THIS!!!!!.....
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:20:06 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: xxxxx Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:04 AM Subject: FW: THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE THIS!!!!!.....
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 01:41:22 -0700
Subject: FW: THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE THIS!!!!!.....
Subject: Fw: THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE THIS!!!!!.....
The SOB's responsible for this sinful crime should be sentenced to getting deep fried in a giant deep fryer in hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i never heard of it nor ever saw such a picture before.
let's see who can come up with the funniest caption for one of these photos:.
.
Steve, agree with you that they can always rationalize and minimize, as usual !
However, from what Wikipedia says, it seems that it is not really "have to have the symbol".
It states:
"While no agency is tasked solely with enforcing its use as a mark of certification, the Star of Life has traditionally been usedas a means of identification for medical personnel, equipment, and vehicles."
Check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_life
This seems to mean that it is not compulary and no agency is assigned to enforce it. They could have avoid it, but as usual, if it means $$$, then no problem with any symbol.
Here I am referring to the fact that they want to appear "social" to the comunity, because of the fact that they pay little or no local taxes, being a non-profit org.
