Posts by civicsi00

"The government of France had imposed a retroactive 60-percent tax on all religious offerings donated to Association Les Témoins de Jéhovah (also referred to as the Christian Association of Jehovah’s Witnesses of France) over a period of four years from 1993 to 1996. The government initially demanded a total payment of about 45 million euros. The amount demanded is now more than 57 million euros (more than $79,000,000 USD), which far exceeds the assets of the association."

Which "assets" and where? The assets in France? The WT can likely afford the tax, they just don't want to pony up the cash. Later in the article, it's pointed out that the WT argued that the tax imposed on them was, yeah, you guessed it: "a direct attack on their religious freedom".

I say: France should keep pushing the issue and let them go bankrupt!

35

12/15/10 study WT page 10, more 'faithful slave' stuff

by EndofMysteries in

page 10, par 14, (get a bucket incase you get sick).

14 in prayer to god, jesus clearly stated:.

your word is truth.

civicsi00

Were they doing this before, this often, every few months, and I just didn't notice then? This is some pretty bold stuff. It seems like there is a specific tightening of the noose going on here. Hopefully, it will result in more people waking up.

They have become bolder in the last 2-3 years. I intend to document some quotes and post these up so we can see that they really are ramping up the "GB/FDS worship". I think they're afraid. The internet has exposed who they really are and they can't cope with it. What they should really be afraid of is that the older JW's will die without enough new ones able to carry the torch.

One of two things will happen: They will either restructure and form a much smaller cult. Or they will disappear. Here's hoping for the latter!

75

Strange statement in last week's study article

by civicsi00 in

there was a strange statement in last week's study article.

well, let's be honest: there were plenty of strange statements!

but one in particular bothered me.

civicsi00

TD: Thanks for clarifying with that quote from 1966! It seems the WT has not changed it's opinion on Jesus being able to somehow father "perfect" children! But I have a question for YOU: Did Jesus really have a beard when he was on Earth? And if so, does he have a "spiritual" beard now that he's a "spirit" creature up in the heavs?

Thanks everyone for the comments! I had no idea in which direction this topic was going to go, but I love it!

75

Strange statement in last week's study article

by civicsi00 in

there was a strange statement in last week's study article.

well, let's be honest: there were plenty of strange statements!

but one in particular bothered me.

civicsi00

There was a strange statement in last week's study article. Well, let's be honest: There were plenty of strange statements! But one in particular bothered me. First, the quote, from paragraph 9:

"As a perfect human, Jesus could have concluded that he, like Adam, had the potential for fathering a perfect race. However, Jesus never desired such a future because it was not Jehovah's will for him."

First of all, stating that Jesus "could have concluded" anything is outright idiocy. Why can't WT writers simply stick to what's written in the Bible? Why do they have to come up with some random BS? Plus.. how could he "father a perfect race" without a "perfect" wife?! More than anything, he would have fathered a nephilim-type race, considering the WT teaches that he is Michael the Archangel and the WT also teaches that it was angels that had sex with women in Noah's day. So, again, how could he have "fathered a perfect race"?

I really think this statement is more about temptation than anything else. In parallel, many JW's desire to father some "imperfect" children and the WT discourages this. They're trying to guilt the flock even further by trying to bring Jesus into the picture and say that "he could have" done so many things but never did any of them. As a matter of fact, I remember hearing older ones, my parents even, in the congregation talking about how Jesus "could have" established "modern medicine" if he had desired back then because he knew humans so well, having built them and all. As always, keep the flock in line and don't let them try anything on their own.

Any thoughts out there about what the WT meant by this statement in the WT article?

62

The Truth stands on its own- WTBS or NO WTBS!

by theMadJW in

yes, the wtbs has done much deserving ridicule- yet does far more deserving credit and respect.. but this is not about them, but the truth about god and christ they have made known, by showing it to all in the scriptures.

because of this work, most know that god(s) is not the ultimate sadist bbqing billions in a mythical 'hellfire' anymore, etc!.

this topic is at the request of little bird- is it possible to have a peaceful discussion here- without all the self-righteous psychobabble from so many?.

civicsi00

By the way, theMadJW, NO ONE would ever become a Jehovah's Witness upon reading the bible alone. <Gasp!>

62

The Truth stands on its own- WTBS or NO WTBS!

by theMadJW in

yes, the wtbs has done much deserving ridicule- yet does far more deserving credit and respect.. but this is not about them, but the truth about god and christ they have made known, by showing it to all in the scriptures.

because of this work, most know that god(s) is not the ultimate sadist bbqing billions in a mythical 'hellfire' anymore, etc!.

this topic is at the request of little bird- is it possible to have a peaceful discussion here- without all the self-righteous psychobabble from so many?.

civicsi00

Because of this work, most KNOW that God(s) is not the Ultimate Sadist BBQing billions in a mythical 'Hellfire' anymore, etc!

Oh, right. So instead, of being afraid of a 'mythical hellfire', the Governing Body has graciously taught millions that "soon" billions will permanently die without the hope of a resurrection. And so.. he is not the Ultimate Sadist? One thing is for sure: there's going to be a BBQ at the Big A.

35

The enigmatic mystery of the Nephilim, the Rephaim, and the Titans

by Leolaia in

it has been said that historical memory in oral tradition goes back only a few hundred years before it alters considerably in later retellings, and when even greater time depth is involved the mythic past fills in what has been collectively forgotten.

but myths purporting to relate events hundreds or even thousands of years in the past often contain kernals of historical memory amid the layers of tradition and archetypal folk motifs.

an excellent example from my own reading is that of the inuit eskimo in greenland who have a rich oral tradition about the norsemen who died out over 500 years ago and who originally colonized the land a millenium ago.

civicsi00

Marking for later. Fascinating stuff...

16

Watchtower says GENERATION is NOT the Anointed!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

compare these two "generation" quotes from the watchtower -- which one is correct?

how did god's "channel of communication" make an error this big?.

the watchtower, november 1st, 1995, pages 30-31:.

civicsi00

It doesn't matter what the WTBTS teaches. It's all mind control. If they start to teach that frogs can indeed talk and the sky is green, then all JW's will follow suit. To quote Ray Franz from ISOCF, pages 420-421:

"True, there is periodic acknowledgement in the publications that the writers are, after all, "imperfect men," and that the organization has "never claimed to be infallible." In actual practice it works out quite differently. One finds out that this only applies to the past, not to the present. While the organization must recognize that it has changed a considerable number of its past teachings- which makes it evident that they were in error- it does not feel moved to modesty by those errors, so as to remind its readers that what it now says may also suffer due to that same imperfection. To the contrary, Jehovah's Witnesses are called on to take whatever is currently taught as if it were infallible. In effect they are told, "You should accept everything published as absolute truth until such time as we may tell you it isn't." This is, purely and simply, mind control."

20

finally read Crisis of Conscience

by A.Fenderson in

i recently finished reading crisis of conscience.

in short, it was one of the most important books i've ever read, even considering that i left the kh 13 years ago.

i honestly cannot see how anyone could read it and still maintain that they believe in the wts religion--have any of you ever known someone to read it and actually still believe and be happy with the jw religion?

civicsi00

I honestly cannot see how anyone could read it and still maintain that they believe in the WTS religion--have any of you ever known someone to read it and actually still believe and be happy with the JW religion?

About a year and half ago, I set out to free my aunt's mind from the tentacles of the WTS. She had been disfellowshipped without a Kangaroo Court back in '93 and never really made an effort to get back in (I have yet to fully understand why but it has something to do with her mother, my grandmother). I felt really bad for her because she told me that ever since then, she has asked Jehovah to bless her with a quiet death and let her go in peace. She does not feel worthy of His love and is perfectly fine with dying and never resurrecting. So far, I have failed in bringing her to see how evil the WTS really is. She still believes the GB are God's spokesmen on Earth and that "The End" is coming really, really "soon". Right...

Anyways, I was able to acquire a spanish copy of COC after searching for months and left it for her the last time I saw her. I explained to her who Ray was and all that jazz, but she didn't really take much interest. She left the book lying around and my cousin's husband, when visiting, saw the book and read it. Twice! Now this guy, even though he has read the book through twice, went hardcore and now defends the WTS to the extreme. Don't ask me how or why, but he is loony when it comes to defending the WTS, coming up with irrational reasons and nonsensical gibberish. I've exchanged a few emails with him and more than anything, I enjoy just reading his responses to some of my questions (I could care less about freeing his mind). He also believes the Holy Spirit is dwelling within him and he thinks he knows more than the GB. He thinks one day he'll be able to be a member. He criticized Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap for not being patient with the WTS, and also said they weren't being "humble enough". He also told me that he doesn't consider the GB prophets (which while the GB does NOT right out and say they ARE, they do claim to have "revealed" knowledge, which in the end is a matter of semantics) and a bunch of other nonsense.

So yes, I know somebody that has read COC and still believes in the WTS. But he became a hardcore WT apologist afterwards. Strange, eh?