Posts by jefferywhat

7

how long is reproving for ?

by looloo in

if an elder did something he shouldnt and got reprooved how long before he is allowed to be an elder again ?

anyone know ?

If the elder has been reproved and they want to re appoint him to being a MS, for a period of 5 years after the reproof it is indicated on the recommendation form, but that doesnt mean it has to be three years, in my experience, if they take it and soldier on, 3 years later they can me a MS, then 2 years later, after the 5 years, and elder.

17

Sharing the 'real' truth by commenting at meetings

by skeeder in

having recently gotten my commenting 'privleges' back i try to sow seeds of truth with them.. here are two tidbits i have shared:.

1----- the bible highlights-------when the older men judged legal cases, they did it at the city gates where the proceedings could be observed.. 2-----wt study yesterday-----the world was judged wicked and noah was judged righteous---he was a 'preacher of righteousness' before he started on the ark.

there is no indication that god ever intended for anyone else other than noah and his family to get on the ark.

jefferywhat

hey Skeeder,

I do the same thing but with the right motive, if your motive is pure, you will be blessed, if your doing it just to rock the boat, it could get a bit boring.

When I answer, I alaways think of ways to keep it real, if I get a chance to slam motivation by guilt, I do, and its scriptural so noone can take offense.

I also gave the talk on confession and pointed out it is not a scriptural obligation to confess to man, again using the scriptures.

If you are making progress and want to keep going, excellent, reach out and make a difference.

Check out http://www.elihubooks.com/

I have been waiting along time for this kind of angle, I love it.

It reminds me of Jesus words, you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

Happy answering and let us know when you have your first talk.

20

"Loose Conduct" , what is the true definition?

by jefferywhat in

this term was actually one of the reasons i have started looking into the wtbs, i must be honest and say im am still looking objectively, so please dont avalanche my question.

i am in search for truth!!

does anyone know the actual root meaning of the word asel geia?

jefferywhat

Thank you all for your replies.

Drew, I found the link most helpful.

And in answer to your question, the reason it is such an issue is it seems quite unjust and draconian and completely opposed to the underlying theory of the christian judicial process.

I understand if someone sits in the meeting and says f#@k you Mr Elder, they obviously want the proceeding to close up pronto, but if you have sound argument it should be different.

In a congregation I was in few years ago ( I have mentioned this on the forum previously) a couple on the BOE were on a power trip and were PRing at a whim and deleting appointment men.

They came after me and put forward a reason why I didnt qualify, it was false and unprovable and I appealed and "won".

But what shocked me, as this was the first time I had been in trouble( baptized at 12, pioneering at 15, bethel at 19, I was a goodie goodie) was, a) the reactions of my associates. b) the attitude of the particular elder( not all were foolish, hence my belief that the process does work)

A lot of people that used to look up to me started to criticize the fact that I was disagreeing with the elders, didnt matter if they were right, "just agree with them and it will be over quickly" and the elders involved would get this wry smile on their face when I talked of appeal.

So it leads me to this conclusion: The RF( I learned that term here and I love it) give fraudulent elders a massive amount of authority, more than they are scripturally entitled, and have done for decades by there attitude of just rolling over and agreeing and you see this with the weak argumentation they put forward whilst expecting to "win" and some actually believe that they are still appointed by holy spirit and will be princess in the new world. They are like prince charles waiting for the "mother" to die so they can slip onto the throne.

BUT, if you dare confront or intelligently argue a decision, even about yourself, its rebellious, if you get passionate, its loose conduct. it just winds me up as it seems so fleshly. The idea of the committee is not to judge you, no elder has the scriptural right or authority to judge the members of the cong, it is the job of the JC to try to ascertain what Jehovahs has judged and to act accordingly, that is a very hard job and if an individual is passionate or if the elders are idiots, how do we know Jehovah has judged them adversely.

I realised pretty early in my JC, that they had made up their mind already, and so I stuck to that point alone. As with all judicial process, the end does not justify the means and so I hammered the point on prejudging, it was this that got the decision overturned as the branch agreed, I was prejudged, but if I had of lost my temper or got a bit sarcastic ( the whole thing took 9 months and untold meetings) they could of thrown the "loose conduct" charge at me and that would of been two charges to face in an appeal committee. So I have an issue with it because I know how much power it gives dodgy elders and its build on the premise of a perfect judicial process.

I also think with these man made rules( this should probably be the subject of a new thread) they designed to maintain power, alone. When I worked in the medical profession, you would have about 30% of patients who would rely on "doctors orders" absolutely,they would believe without doubt, 60 % who would listen and do, but never have a strong opinion for or against, they just did it, and 10% who would challenge, get second opinions, do research and come back and question your decision. Sound familiar?

The first 30% were held up as fine examples because of their "patient compliance" and it was this group that gives medical professionals the authority over the remaining groups.

If you have read the book or seen the movie NEVER ENDING STORY, you will understand the meaning of "The Nothingness" ( I saw it when I was a kid). I think the WTBS is scared of the growing nothingness and so they are forced to create more rules in order to establish and exercise authority, loose conduct is one of these.

76

January '08 "Keep on the Watch" brochure campaign cancelled

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

i heard that a notice was sent to all boe this month removing "keep on the watch" as the featured january campaign.. can i get confirmation from anyone?.

jefferywhat

I agree with Billy the Ex-Bethelite.

I was in bethel long enough to know logistics arent the problem.

I was in bethel just after they had filmed the new 'welcome to bethel" video to be played prior to the bethel tour.

it was a great vid apart from just after it was installed, it was taken away and replaced.

The reason? Guess......

Is that close Billy?

20

"Loose Conduct" , what is the true definition?

by jefferywhat in

this term was actually one of the reasons i have started looking into the wtbs, i must be honest and say im am still looking objectively, so please dont avalanche my question.

i am in search for truth!!

does anyone know the actual root meaning of the word asel geia?

jefferywhat

This term was actually one of the reasons I have started looking into the WTBS, I must be honest and say Im am still looking objectively, so please dont avalanche my question.

I am in search for truth!!

Does anyone know the actual root meaning of the word a·sel´gei·a?

The WT reads "One might assume that [loose conduct] (from the Greek word a·sel´gei·a) refers to conduct that is immoral but in a minor or not so serious way. This, however, is not the case according to the available evidence in Scripture and also in the ancient secular Greek writings in which this word appears. It is not limited to acts of sexual immorality. And, rather than relating to bad conduct of a somewhat petty or minor nature, it apparently describes acts that reflect a brazen attitude, one that betrays disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority. The ‘looseness' of the conduct, therefore, is not due principally to weakness but results from an attitude of disrespect, insolence or shamelessness." ("Questions from Readers: What does the expression 'loose conduct' as found at Galatians 5:19 mean?". (September 15, 1973). Watchtower, p. 574)

The comment above has no scriptural or secular references.

Anyone have firm facts on this?

JefferyWhat

13

To all those who think the WT uses deliberate "subliminal" images...

by marmot in

(okay, i know i said i'd be taking a break from jwd, and i will, but i just remembered something that i felt necessary to post here because it was bugging me) .

there are some of you out there who believe the governing body meticulously crafts subliminal images that are hidden throughout the society's literature.

you say that it is impossible for these to be mere accidents or just the work of sloppy artists because there is so much painstaking review and every image must be approved by the gb before being published.

jefferywhat

John Cleese did a great doco years ago on the Human face and or ability to recognize thousands of faces, as a matter of fact, a chicken recognizes individual chickens by their combs and can remember on average 13 other chooks, so a humans ability to recognize, and after years of not seeing a person, draw a picture is crazy.

The down side is our brain is so used to face recognition, it gets carried away and sees it everywhere. ie clouds, wallpaper, timber grain, tree bark and so on.

Have a beer,go cross eyed, stare at your lounge room curtains long enough and you'll see your unborn children.

PS the hand in the rev book is weird, but thats all.

1

Is this a breach of Christian Neutrality?

by jefferywhat in

this is an oldie but a goodie, and it begs a question.

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j2444.pdf

for any witnesses in australia, we would be used to the little guy with the canadian accent brought over here by the society to sort out the post war issues in aus bethel, we were selling and swapping stuff with the army, i actually think one of the bethel boys get shot by mistake.

jefferywhat

Ummm how do I move this? Help!! I have doubled up and ended up in the wrong arena!!

1

Is this a breach of Christian Neutrality?

by jefferywhat in

this is an oldie but a goodie, and it begs a question.

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j2444.pdf

for any witnesses in australia, we would be used to the little guy with the canadian accent brought over here by the society to sort out the post war issues in aus bethel, we were selling and swapping stuff with the army, i actually think one of the bethel boys get shot by mistake.

jefferywhat

This is an oldie but a goodie, and it begs a question. http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j2444.pdf For any witnesses in Australia, we would be used to the little guy with the Canadian accent brought over here by the society to sort out the post war issues in Aus bethel, we were selling and swapping stuff with the army, I actually think one of the Bethel boys get shot by mistake. The other guy, Vin Toole is the loud obnoxious guy that used to appear at DC, less and less though Ive noticed. Anyway, I dont have a strong opinion here, but what is the definition of neutrality? Its obviously a noun and means an impartial and uninvolved country or person, so where does it start and stop. Is the society getting involved with law makers, legislators and senate enquires over stepping the mark or is it fine? Is there a difference between having a say by ballot box or in a government initiated enquiry? Is this an old subject already flogged?

4

Is this a breach of Christian Neutrality?

by jefferywhat in

this is an oldie but a goodie, and it begs a question.

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j2444.pdf .

for any witnesses in australia, we would be used to the little guy with the canadian accent brought over here by the society to sort out the post war issues in aus bethel, we were selling and swapping stuff with the army, i actually think one of the bethel boys get shot by mistake.

jefferywhat

This is an oldie but a goodie, and it begs a question.

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j2444.pdf

For any witnesses in Australia, we would be used to the little guy with the Canadian accent brought over here by the society to sort out the post war issues in Aus bethel, we were selling and swapping stuff with the army, I actually think one of the Bethel boys get shot by mistake.

The other guy, Vin Toole is the loud obnoxious guy that used to appear at DC, less and less though Ive noticed.

Anyway, I dont have a strong opinion here, but what is the definition of neutrality? Its obviously a noun and means an impartial and uninvolved country or person, so where does it start and stop.

Is the society getting involved with law makers, legislators and senate enquires over stepping the mark or is it fine?

Is there a difference between having a say by ballot box or in a government initiated enquiry?

Is this an old subject already flogged?

20

Will the GB get rid of the WBTS?

by jefferywhat in

this is an out there discussion, and probably running a little ahead of the organisation but.....

ever since rutherford took charge, the organisation has over shadowed the actual "hands on" worship, i.e.

in one year alone, it was pointed out on this forum, if a witness read all of the literature and the bible as prescribed, it would be like 120 pages of the bible and over 3000 pages of watchtower printed material.

jefferywhat

The end! Ha!

We dont know how it wil end!

But we know that the WBTS has just paid out nearly a million bucks to one of 9 abuse victims, even if we keep it conservative and assume they all got that amount, its still around 8 million, and thats just the start, france is chasing them for hundreds of millions.

It could happen in every country!

Im not suggesting that the individuals will be changed, just the all powerful name of the WBTS, it is the legal avenue that the GB use, it is entirely plausible and possible for them to cease trading under that name.

It would be interesting to find out who owns the printing presses and so on outside of New York City, it wouldn't surprise me to find out they are not under the name of WBTS.

Im looking at it from a business prospective, in 2000 they formed:

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, New York. Incorporated
Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses, New York. Incorporated
Kingdom Support Services, Incorporated, New York. Incorporated

And the Presidency was changed to non GB members, the GB look after the ones above, the WBTS is already being pushed aside, its not the end of the world Im proposing here, just another shift in org structure.

And I bet it has a lot to do with the money!