Posts by Gianluca

28

Survey

by Vienna in

jw
friends

how many on this board are: a) christains--not a jw b) jehovah's witnesses c) do not believe in god d) have a belief in god but just not active in anything right now.

i'm new to the board and was curious as to everyone's standing.

i'm 30, a christain, i left the jws 3 years ago (after being in it for 21 years) to follow jesus and heard of, among other good things, this great thing called: grace!

Gianluca

Hello Vienna,

I'm an inactive JW, still believe in God but in my own way. Will never join another religion/organization.
Ciao
Gianluca

46

What Caused Your First Doubt ?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

for me it was when i was about twelve years old and my best friends dad was disfellowshipped from the congregation.. i could not understand how a god of love would treat someone so coldly.. i used to think what if that was the way my parents would treat me if i had done something wrong, that would be so hard and cruel.. as i got older another thing that bothered me was the beard issue.

it may sound pretty trivial however the society has always refused to make a good arguement as to why they would give you the old cold shoulder if you were to grow one.. two more items; first i could not understand why all the congregations and all the assemblys would give income reports.

and the society never did.

Gianluca

November 1995: The day they changed the "1914 generation" doctrine.......Thats when i started to an intensive research into WTS doctrine.

Ciao
Gianluca

2

Great cartoon

by betweenworlds in

jw
friends

hi all not sure if this was posted or not yet, but loved it and wanted to share it with you..

Gianluca

Where is the cartoon??

9

Did WTS encourage college back then?

by sf in

jw
friends

please post vital wt articles stating basically college was not for jws and why it wasnt....and... what is the societies "new light" now?

thx.

i need this asap!!.

Gianluca

Hi SF
Some time ago i found this on a web site.

The Watchtower Society's views about "Higher Education"

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has recently reversed another of its rules. The Society's publications
taught that education, especially "higher" education beyond high school is undesirable and a waste of valuable
time.The following quotations are typical articles the Watchtower has printed on the subject.

The first quotation demonstrates the common Watchtower Society belief that wisdom gained by education is not
helpful to one's abilities to be a minister of Jehovah.

w56 5/15 315 Careful Living Helps Avoid Life's Pitfalls

We are strongly urged to 'study to show ourselves approved unto God'; in the old world we would be studying to
gain 'wisdom' and approval of men. 'Be doers of the Word and not hearers only,' we are taught; but by following
the course of higher education we would have little time to be hearers or doers of the Word of God............20 God's
approval is upon no part of the old world, and that includes its institutions of learning that promulgate its
philosophies. Such 'wisdom' adds nothing to the stature of an individual as a minister of Jehovah, because that is
not its intended purpose, nor is it designed with this objective

The next quotation is typical of many that express the worry that education and exposure to college influences will
lead one to seek a high paying career and the material things that money can buy. This would mean one would
put less emphasis and time into the work of preaching the Watchtower Society's doctrine and distributing
literature. Parents are cautioned about contributing to this attitude, too.

w67 2/1 75-6 Fruitful Christians Manifest Godly Contentment

Young people, for example, are easily influenced by the materialistic outlook of the world around them, and
especially is this true if their parents are inclined to value highly the ability to command a big salary in the
business world.As a result, they may set their hearts on the education that is offered by the world's institutions of
"higher learning." Their desire is not simply to learn a trade so that they can work with their hands and not be a
burden on others; no, they want to be in an upper income bracket. (1 Thess. 4:10-12) But what is wrong with that?
Jesus frankly said that it would be more difficult for a rich man to get into the Kingdom than for a camel to get
through the eye of a sewing needle. (Luke 18:24, 25) Rather than being content with "sustenance and covering,"
those who devote themselves to getting a "higher education" usually want to be able to enjoy "the rest of the
things" that money can buy. (Mark 4:19) If they are going to succeed in the education they have set out to get, they
have to work hard at it. Study of the Bible, association with the Christian congregation and participation in the
Christian ministry are curtailed. Worldly associations predominate; worldly philosophy fills their minds. What
happens? Perhaps not what they expected, though they would have known if they took seriously what the Bible
says. (1 Cor. 15:33; Col. 2:8)

The following quotation from a 1969 Watchtower article hints at how strongly the Society opposed higher learning.
Making something of yourself is here classed as "Devil's propaganda." Notice the continuing theme that time is too
short to waste it on education(Probably because 1975 was not far away). The Society claimed that the only work
with a future is preaching or other theocratic activity:

w69 3/15 171 What Influences Decisions in Your Life?

Many schools now have student counsellors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to
pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them "brainwash"
you with the Devil's propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very
little time left! Any "future" this world offers is no future! Wisely, then, let God's Word influence you in selecting a
course that will result in your protection and blessing. Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the
possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal. This is a life that offers an everlasting future!

After the 1975 failed prophecy, college being a waste of time because of the "nearness of the end" is not stressed
as strongly. Instead, warnings of the dangers of college are made over and over.

w75 9/1 543 Questions from Readers

Today, there are many teen-age baptized servants of Jehovah. Their personal study, preparation for meetings and
sharing in the Theocratic Ministry School have given them a basic knowledge of Bible truth for Christian preaching.
They have also benefited by education in the public schools. But how far should they go with a secular education?
It would hardly be consistent for such a youth, of his own choice, to pursue extensive secular studies beyond what
is required by the law and by his parents.......Many college and university courses are based on false theories, such
as evolution, that bolster the old system of things, which will soon pass away forever. (1 John 2:17) A goodly
number of the professors have no faith in God or in the Bible and actively teach their godless beliefs. Moreover,
there is the corrupting influence that the college atmosphere often has on morals, including the danger of drug
addiction.In most countries secular schools, public and private, are more filled with lawlessness, violence and
corruption (and also drugs) than they were years ago. Admittedly, some schools are very bad.

g87 1/8 15 College Education-A Preparation for What?

You graduate from college with dreams for the future. Sadly, most of your aspirations will turn to ashes. I don't
want to demoralize you, but you might as well hear the truth: When you acquire the possessions you covet, if you
acquire them, and when you achieve the successes you pursue, if you achieve them, they won't satisfy you.
Instead, at those very moments when you would expect to be reveling in triumph, you will feel empty rather than
fulfilled, depressed rather than elated, agitated rather than peaceful."

In 1987, the Awake! magazine "From Our Readers" section printed a letter which commented on the above article.
This letter contained the following disapproval of college education:

g87 8/22 28 From Our Readers

College Education?

When I first read your article "College Education-A Preparation for What?" I thought to myself: 'Another put-down
for a college education.' (January 8, 1987) But after careful consideration, now that I have finished college, I can
truly appreciate the advice given. Although it's too late for me, I hope young people who read the article realize
that a college education prepares you for absolutely nothing. I look back and regret those years of my life.

The Society again began using the shortness of time as a reason to avoid further education. In a 1988 Awake!
magazine "From Our Readers" letter, the question was whether to pursue a college education or not. The
Watchtower's answer included the following:

g88 1/22 28 From Our Readers

Third, the usual college environment fosters a spirit of independence and permissiveness, resulting in sexual
immorality and drug misuse that may be difficult for many young people to resist. We encourage young people to
continue acquiring knowledge, especially that found in the Bible because it leads to gaining everlasting life. (John
17:3) We also encourage them to cultivate the skills necessary to lead a useful, productive life with the emphasis
on Jesus' words at Matthew 6:33, to keep seeking first God's Kingdom and his righteousness.And fourth, the time is
short. (Luke 21:34-36; Ephesians 5:15, 16) It can be spent most profitably in serving our Creator.-ED.

g85 3/22 18 How Do I Choose a Career?

A Christian's view of the future should also affect his choice of career. With 'the world passing away,' a career
based upon worldly ambitions is most unrealistic. (1 John 2:17) Bible prophecy indicates how short-lived such a
career would be.-Luke 21:29-35.

The following article, gives little doubt about the Society's opinion of the value of a college education.

g89 5/8 13 What Career Should I Choose?

A university degree may or may not improve your employment prospects. But one fact is indisputable: "The time
left is reduced"! (1 Corinthians 7:29) For all its presumed benefits, would four years or more in a university be the
best use of that remaining time?-Ephesians 5:16.

The Watchtower Society even encourages young people to spend less time on their normal high school education.
The following is one of several articles they wrote that suggests shortening the school day to allow more time for
the Society's interests.

g90 11/22 27 Will an After school Job Help Me Grow Up?

There are activities available that may be more beneficial than working. These activities include reading and
studying outside of school and taking on the responsibilities of unpaid volunteer work or community service.' Nina,
for example, performs a most valuable community service after school as a full-time minister of Jehovah's
Witnesses. She says: "I worked it out with my guidance counsellor to have a short school day so I would get out of
school near noon. Monday through Wednesday I go out in the public preaching work. I love doing it. I just love it!"
Would your schedule and personal circumstances permit you to do likewise? Developing "godly devotion" in this
way would no doubt prove to be far more beneficial than working at some job!-1 Timothy 4:8.

But after all the above mentioned articles all of a sudden "New Light" higher Education is OK!

All this disapproval of a college education has now been replaced with a conditional approval of higher education.
In The Watchtower of November 1, 1992, both study articles and one short reading article were on the subject of
education. The first study article, pages 10 through 15 entitled "Education in Bible Times," was devoted to a
discourse on education in the Hebrew scriptures , with the last two paragraphs covering Greek scriptures. The
second study article, pages 15 through 22 covered educational needs in our modern times. The quotations below
come from this second article. The third article, on pages 21 and 22, discussed the educational background of the
apostle Paul.

w92 11/1 17-18 Education With a Purpose

9 How much education does a young Christian need in order to respect these Bible principles and meet his
Christian obligations? This varies from country to country. By and large, however, it seems that the general trend in
many lands is that the level of schooling required to earn decent wages is now higher than it was a few years ago.
Reports received from branches of the Watch Tower Society in different parts of the world indicate that in many
places it is difficult to find jobs with decent wages after completing simply the minimum schooling required by law
or in some countries even after finishing secondary or high school.

w92 11/1 18 Education With a Purpose

11 What is often the situation today? It has been reported that in some countries many well-intentioned youngsters
have left school after completing the minimum required schooling in order to become pioneers. They had no trade
or secular qualifications. If they were not helped by their parents, they had to find part-time work. Some have had
to accept jobs that required them to work very long hours to make ends meet. Becoming physically exhausted,
they gave up the pioneer ministry. What can such ones do to support themselves and get back into the pioneer
service?

w92 11/1 18 Education With a Purpose

Christians should regard education as a means to an end. In these last days, their purpose is to serve Jehovah as
much and as effectively as possible. If, in the country where they live, minimal or even high school education will
only allow them to find jobs providing insufficient income to support themselves as pioneers, then supplementary
education or training might be considered. This would be with the specific goal of full-time service

w92 11/1 19-20 Education With a Purpose

Who decides whether a young Christian should undertake further education or training? The Bible principle of
headship comes into play here. (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 6:1) On this basis parents will surely want to guide
their children in the choice of a trade or occupation and consequently in the amount of education that will be
needed. In many countries educational and occupational choices have to be made early on during secondary
education. That is the time when Christian parents and youths need to seek Jehovah's direction in making a wise
choice, with Kingdom interests uppermost in mind. Young people have different propensities and aptitudes. Wise
parents will take these into account. All honest work is honorable, be it blue-collar or white-collar. While the world
may elevate office work and disparage working hard with one's hands, the Bible certainly does not. (Acts 18:3) So
when parents and young Christians today, after carefully and prayerfully weighing the pros and cons, decide for or
against post secondary studies, others in the congregation should not criticize them.t of or changed into a
materialistic goal.

17 If Christian parents responsibly decide to provide their children with further education after high school, that is
their prerogative. The period of these studies would vary according to the type of trade or occupation selected. For
financial reasons and in order to enable their children to get into the full-time service as quickly as possible, many
Christian parents have chosen for them short-term study programs in vocational or technical schools. In some cases
youths have needed to be apprenticed to some trade but always with a full life of service to Jehovah as the
goal.teaching"

w92 11/1 20 Education With a Purpose

This magazine has placed emphasis on the dangers of higher learning, and justifiably so, for much higher
education opposes the "healthful teaching" of the Bible. (Titus 2:1; 1 Timothy 6:20, 21) Further, since the 1960's,
many schools of advanced learning have become hotbeds of lawlessness and immorality. "The faithful and
discreet slave" has strongly discouraged entering that kind of environment. (Matthew 24:12, 45) It must be admitted,
however, that nowadays youngsters meet up with these same dangers in high schools and technical colleges and
even in the workplace.-1 John 5:19

With the Watchtower Society now approving the use of a young person's life in pursuit of further education, I
wonder what has happened to the Society's insistence that the end of "this system of things" is very near? And why
did they prevousely say that higher education is a waste of time? And why did they say that higher education is the
devils propaganda ?etc.etc........It would have been better if the Watchtower Society had kept their own opinions to
themselves and just said that the choice of higher education is a personal decision.

Ciao
Gianluca

1

Five Basic Freedoms

by Jang in

jw
friends

five basic freedoms .

to see and hear what is here,.

to say what one feels and thinks, .

Gianluca

Hi Jang,

Good Post !!

Ciao
Gianluca

'JEHOVAHS' HASSLED MY TWO KIDDIES&#...

by Gianluca in

jw
friends

here is some more news on the jw's:.

religious target: bethany groom, aged six, and her three-year-old brother jim .

an angry mum today blasted two jehovahs witnesses for approaching and talking to her children aged just six and three.. little bethany groom, six, and three-year-old jim herring, were playing on their own in their mothers hartlepool front garden when the two women approached.

Gianluca

Hello,
Here is some more news on the JW's:

RELIGIOUS TARGET: Bethany Groom, aged six, and her three-year-old brother Jim

AN ANGRY mum today blasted two Jehovah’s Witnesses for approaching and talking to her children – aged just six and three.

Little Bethany Groom, six, and three-year-old Jim Herring, were playing on their own in their mother’s Hartlepool front garden when the two women approached.

They talked to the youngsters before handing them literature from the fundamentalist Christian sect.

But the children’s mum, Jane Groom, today slammed their actions and said it contradicted everything she had tried to teach her youngsters about not talking to strangers.

Jane, 28, of Elmwood Road, Low Throston, said: “I don’t think it’s on. The whole stranger issue. I find it highly irresponsible.

“I’ve had to sit my children right down and talk about strangers and who they can be. I know their intent was to push their religion, but this is going against everything I’ve taught them.

“This is 2001. Think of the things that have happened and what can be the consequences.

“Everything I’ve tried to teach my children – it goes against all that. They should go and do their thing at their own place of worship and leave people to make their own minds up, and certainly think twice before approaching any small child.”

Jane was upstairs when she spotted the two Jehovah’s Witnesses – both women in their 40s – talking to her children in the front garden.

She immediately ran downstairs and jumped in her car to catch up with the pair.

Jane, a teacher, added: “I went to give them their stuff back. I was so angry I didn’t even read it properly.

“I said ‘you have approached my two children, both under eight, playing in their own space’.

“I’m the first one to say that anyone is entitled to their opinions, but I don’t agree with trying to push it.

“They don’t need to disturb people in their free time and push it on them.
“I’ve got my own beliefs, but I certainly keep them to myself.”

A member of Hartlepool Jehovah’s Witnesses declined to comment on the incident when contacted by the Hartlepool Mail.

The link to the article is the following:
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/story3.html

Ciao
Gianluca

19

WT UK part I: IBSA trustee reports and financials

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the wt has several uk entities, of which this was one.

ibsa was recently closed down.

the reports and financial statements are fairly lengthy documents.

Gianluca

WOW!! ITL. 133,940,173,265.85 and ITL. 1,390,218,674,816

I would'nt mind 10 % of those sums!!

9

Yugoslavia bans import of JW's literature

by Gianluca in

jw
friends

here is some news on the jw's:.

belgrade: the yugoslav interior ministry has banned the import of jehovah's witnesses literature, claiming it would have a negative influence on the education of children.. source: bbc monitoring european - political .

publication date: 2001-05-22. text of report in english by belgrade-based radio b92 text web site on 22 may .

Gianluca

Hello,
Here is some news on the JW's:

Belgrade: The Yugoslav Interior Ministry has banned the import of Jehovah's Witnesses literature, claiming it would have a negative influence on the education of children.

Source: BBC Monitoring European - Political
Publication date: 2001-05-22

Text of report in English by Belgrade-based Radio B92 text web site on 22 May

The Belgrade-based Humanitarian Law Centre blew the whistle on the decision today, arguing it "violated the constitutional guarantees of freedom of expression and dissemination of information".

Publication date: 2001-05-22

Ciao
Gianluca

71