Posts by oldseeker

8

Do you know of any JW that made another JW to lose their job?

by asilentone in

oldseeker

Follow this link:

http://sarakhaley.blogspot.com/2009/05/digg-these-links-about-mrt-services-to.html

MRT Services is/was owned by a JW couple. Shafted a lot of people both "worldly" and witnesses.

151

There's A Ghost At My Place Of Employment

by finallysomepride in

ok some of you will laugh at this, but it's true, there is a spirit that haunts the premises where i work.. it has spoken to me once when i was locking up, it was 1 single word "hello", i looked around and saw nothing, i ignored it, set the alarm locked the door & went home.

other times i have felt something brush passed me as i have entered the building early in the morning.

the experience that got to me most happened the other nite when i was called back to the store by security, as i pulled into the drive way there was a man standing at the rear of the building, in the split second of looking away he dissapeared, there's no way that he could have run off the property in that split second.. what do you think?.

oldseeker

OMG! I just noticed the post number of my last post. I have to post again to get rid of that! Just kidding. I should add that in all of the experiences I have had with "ghosts" if you will, I have not had any personal "attacks". I have been present when others have had these problems and have seen them, and experienced them, but not on my own.

All of what I am relating took place a long time ago, in the 70's encompassing most of the 70's. I don't hear much of these attacks today. Maybe because I'm not an elder and not privy to them. I have heard some experiences, but they are rare. Maybe the demons are busy with something else, like breaking up JW families (couldn't resist).

oldseeker

151

There's A Ghost At My Place Of Employment

by finallysomepride in

ok some of you will laugh at this, but it's true, there is a spirit that haunts the premises where i work.. it has spoken to me once when i was locking up, it was 1 single word "hello", i looked around and saw nothing, i ignored it, set the alarm locked the door & went home.

other times i have felt something brush passed me as i have entered the building early in the morning.

the experience that got to me most happened the other nite when i was called back to the store by security, as i pulled into the drive way there was a man standing at the rear of the building, in the split second of looking away he dissapeared, there's no way that he could have run off the property in that split second.. what do you think?.

oldseeker

OK, I'll jump on this one.

I see that there are quite a few who don't believe in ghosts or "demons". I wouldn't either except that I have had a number of experiences with what I will call demons. As an elder I helped a few of the publishers with "problems" they had with "demons", and I mean that literally. This ranged from rocking chairs rocking in the living room with no one in them, lights going on and off by themselves, doors opening and shutting on their own. I saw these things. The one that made the most impression on me was the "poltergeist" demon (a demon that throws things). An older sister was having a problem with one of these and I got to see what was happening. This demon would take books out of the bookshelf in her bedroom and throw them across the room to crash into the wall on the other side. That will get your attention!

I won't go into the JW detail of how some of these were resolved but I will say that merely calling on the name "Jehovah" didn't work. I actually think the demons were amused by that, if they left off their "attack" it may have been because they were annoyed with it not charmed away by using a name.

In all of the experiences I have had, the common thing I noted was the weird cold that I felt as a presence in the room. Not the kind that changes the temperature in the room but a deep to the bones sensation of cold.

Kind of wierd that you brought this up so close to Halloween.

oldseeker

80

To Current and Former Elders

by Styxx in

i wanted to say a few things to current and former elders.

it was really a post by alltimejeff on 10/1/2009 that got me thinking about this and i address a few things that he says here.

but i dont want to single him out because i really think that he is typical of many, and he did in fact apologize for his actions at the end of his post.

oldseeker

Maybe Styxx just decided to drop his "bomb" and run.

Having been an elder for 30 years myself, I can agree with most of the comments here from former elders. I was appointed at 27, which at the time, by the way, was the minimum age to be appointed and even then under "special" circumstances. The special part was that a brother showed unusual maturity.

What I remember from those early years still haunts me today. When the elder arrangement started (I believe it was in 1972 or 71) it was a shift from a one-man head of the congregation to a body. This was quite a challenge since many of the appointed elders were younger and had no experience in dealing with the problems of the publishers. Also, I saw many congregations around me embroiled in heated arguments among the potential elders-to-be and the "Service Commitee". The congregation I was in even held "voting" sessions by secret ballot of the enitre congregation during the meetings to determine who should be an elder.

In the early 70's and for many years thereafter it was felt and even taught that when publishers had problems it was because they were spiritually weak. While we, as elders, tried to help the publishers with real pyschological problems we were not psychologists nor were we allowed to direct publishers to get "outside" (Satanic, worldly philosphy, etc.) help. One of our District Overseers (Condillis) even said to us that if anyone has problems they will ALL be solved by "pioneering".

My point is this; no matter what the attitude of an individual elder is, whether he is in it for glory or to be of real help, he is limited by what he is told to do by "mother" (WTBTS). This is where the real abuse starts, when they are bound by an organizations' rules on pedophiles, disfellowshipping, showing mercy, definitions of immorality, etc. they become puppets.

I saw far too many disfellowshipped who needed help. I saw far too many elders who would make a single call on a publisher needing help and never return to follow up on them. Perhaps they thought that "one call does it all"!

Bottom line is, the elders are not trained to really help the flock. They are trained to enforce the rules, that's why they have to read their "rule book" before every judicial hearing. While they now can recommend a publisher get outside help it becomes a defeat for them when they do so. They failed to cure the publisher using a spiritual solution.

Trying to blame us, as former elders, for damage done to the flock only highlights the lack of training and real direction provided by the FDS. Ultimately, for the most part, we were obedient to "mother" and did what we were told until we couldn't take the crap any longer. Styxx should be grateful, our leaving means that we can't cause any more "damage".

oldseeker

28

Why weren't the rebellious angels destroyed?

by jabberwock in

nearly every living thing is drowned to death because of the badness and general mischief going on during noah's day.

why aren't the angels who materialized bodies and fathered a race of giant, violent freaks destroyed as well?.

i know that they, presumably, left their bodies just in time to escaped the flood, but that shouldn't be enough to escape the wrath of almighty god.. it's interesting that the genesis account says very little about them.

oldseeker

I raised a similar question in another thread a few days ago. Genesis chapter 6 is interesting in that it reveals God's attitude toward humans, at least at that time. Gen.6:6,7: "And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart. So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them."

I don't know for sure, but to me, it sounds like an emotional outburst, anger, hurt, regret, etc. The WT tries to temper what the word "regret" means, as if Jehovah didn't really mean it. But, the reality is, if it weren't for Noah "finding favor" in God's eyes, mankind would have been toast. And, yes you are right, all of this, if not most of it, because of what the angels had done in bringing violence to the earth. Where's the attributes of Jehovah in this (Love, Justice, Wisdom, Power). Alright, I suppose Power could stand alone without application of the other attributes, but in that case it becomes unreasoning Force.

If you want a really captivating slant on what happened, read 1 Enoch especially chapters 1-35. Enoch mentions details of what supposedly happened concerning these angels. A number of the books of Enoch were found among the Dead Sea scrolls, so it has some history. Jude alludes to the book of Enoch. This doesn't mean it's all true, some of it sounds like a fairy tale (kind of like Revelation).

I am left to wonder how much God's son may have influenced, even tempered God's anger toward humans at that time.

oldseeker

50

How Much of an Impact is Being Made by Young JW' s Leaving the Cult ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

we have read threads where statistics show that 2 out of every 3 people raised as jehovah's witnesses eventually leave once they get in their 20's to 30's and out on their own.

my children and my nieces and nephews are between the ages of 21 to 35 .

out of those 8 people - 4 of them have completely stopped attending meetings .

oldseeker

From the 2008 Pew Research Study on religion:

"Two of the religious groups with the lowest retention rates are Jehovah’s Witnesses and Buddhists.

Only slightly more than a third (37%) of adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses still

identify themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Half of all of those who were raised as Buddhists

(50%) are still Buddhists."

43

What do you think will happen to cause an exodus or at least push JWs into further obscurity?

by the_dude_abides in

i believe someday it will be as obscure and strange as say the russelites.

the meetings will only be attended by ppl over sixty or so and it will hardly be considered anywhere near as significant a religion as it is today.

i wonder what will begin this process.

oldseeker

I'm with OTWO. They have already laid the groundwork for extending the end to 2034:

w08 02/15 pg. 22 par. 4

An Extended Period of Time

4 The fact that the word pa-rou-si'a refers to an extended period of time harmonizes with what Jesus said with regard to his presence. (Read Matthew 24:37-39.) Notice that Jesus did not liken his presence to the relatively short period of time during which the Flood occurred in Noah's day. Rather, he compared his presence to the much longer period of time that led up to the Flood. Included therein were Noah's building of the ark and his preaching work, right up until the time that the Flood finally arrived. Those events occurred over many decades. In a similar way, Christ's presence includes the events leading up to and including the great tribulation. -2 Thess. 1:6-9.

w08 01/01 pg. 8 Footnote:

Jesus’ statement helps to correct the wrong idea conveyed in the way some Bible versions mistranslate the word “presence.” Some translations render it “coming,” “advent,” or “return,” all of which imply a momentary event in time. Notice, though, that Jesus did not liken his presence to the Flood of Noah’s day, an event in time, but to “the days of Noah,” a climatic period of time. Like that ancient era, Christ’s presence would be a period of time during which people would be too caught up in the day-to-day affairs of life to take a note of a warning being given.

This allows for the 120 years (they will count this from 1914) as OTWO mentioned. I wrote to the WTBTS and asked if they were now going to promote this as the new end date. No Reply (since 1/08) and I'm sure I was not the only one asking this question.

If you want to take the time you can easily take apart the argument they present in par. 4. Luke 17:26-28, which is a parallel account, points to the end as an EVENT not a PERIOD of time.

But, none of this matters, There is an apathy that has set in that is going to be hard for them to overcome. Perhaps more statements from the platform like this one during the SM last night: "If you don't obey the direction from the Branch, when Jesus and the angels perform the separating work you will be marked as a goat." My guess is that we will see more of this instilling of fear and blind obedience will be pushed.

As mentioned, the real toll may well be in the young ones leaving, leaving older ones as the majority. This will take time but it will be interesting to see what they will do to to motivate the flock. Maybe a new slogan: "Keep alive to 2034"

oldseeker

13

A Statement in the WTS from 10/25/09

by lepermessiah in

there was a statement in the wt study yesterday that really struck me.. i believe it was in the box pimping the "keep yourself in big brother's love" oops...."keep yourself in god's love" book.. it was a simple statement but hit me like a ton of bricks - furthering my resentment toward the hateful and indiscreet slave.. it said something like ..."many people have left jehovah's love" and went on to mention conduct instead of doctrine being the cause.. it really got me thinking:.

1) doesnt god love unconditionally?

isnt that why he sent jesus christ forth?.

oldseeker

Now, this whole idea of God's love brings up a question I have. This may not be the right place for it, but here goes: I have read a little from 1 Enoch, at least the material that deals with the angels that "forsook there own proper dwelling place" and took wives on the earth.

Genesis chapter 6 details what happened when the offspring of the angels (the Nephilim) became prominent. (Gen. 6:5) "Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination ofthe thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time". (Gen 6:7) "So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, .... because I do regret that I have made them.""

Excuse me, but doesn't it seem that the real problem here wasn't man but the angels that decided they wanted women, and to have children? If God had stopped the angels from doing this, would man have gotten to the level of violence that supposedly brought on their own destruction by the flood. Or, would it have taken many centuries more for this level of violence to manifest?

It seems humans were the sacrifices here for the angels misdeads. Reminds me of the saying "Parents do you know where your children are?" Didn't Jehovah know what was going on and whee his children were? What kind of test is this?

I've become more and more questioning on the idea of "God's love", at least that God always loves us. I'm coming to believe that the love God shows to us is IN Jesus Christ, not "through" him. Maybe, in some way, Jesus tempers the side of Jehovah that Genesis 6 reveals as wanting to kill all of us.

I think I have more than one question, but mainly what really happened in Enoch's day? Why were the angels allowed to change the entire course of human history?

oldseeker

13

A Statement in the WTS from 10/25/09

by lepermessiah in

there was a statement in the wt study yesterday that really struck me.. i believe it was in the box pimping the "keep yourself in big brother's love" oops...."keep yourself in god's love" book.. it was a simple statement but hit me like a ton of bricks - furthering my resentment toward the hateful and indiscreet slave.. it said something like ..."many people have left jehovah's love" and went on to mention conduct instead of doctrine being the cause.. it really got me thinking:.

1) doesnt god love unconditionally?

isnt that why he sent jesus christ forth?.

oldseeker

I think the scripture the article was based on was particularly good for the time period involved. Jude 21 - "keep yourselves in God's love, while you are waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view". Considering that Jude had just written: (Jude 4) "My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgement, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ".

So, Jude here was addressing the problems within the congregation, not in the world in general. Jude wasn't talking about those who leave the congregation, but trying to help those "within" the congregation to endure the corruption "within" the congregation. I think this puts a little different slant on the issue of what it means to leave God's love, at least as far as the articles key scripture Jude 21. The problem with this article is just as has been stated, it boils down simply to: "Leave the Org. and you leave Jehovah's love". I really like Judes take on it better: (essentially) "You really need to protect yourselves form the corruption within the Organization".

oldseeker

37

What are your feelings about War?

by wantstoleave in

my dad brought out a good point today.

he said how can for example, a catholic in one country go to war against a catholic in another country and both claim to have god on their side?

for instance, the catholic priest on one side prays for that side, and the catholic priest on the other side prays for his side.

oldseeker

Being a Vietnam vet, I can agree that war is hell. It is also the opposite of what Jesus taught. By the way, JW's don't officially consider themselves "pacifists". We were always taught that we would defend ourselves and families from attack if provoked. Kind of a loop hole. But, here's a thought for you, why should JW's make such a big deal about war? Won't all of the 144,000 have to particiapate in the killing of men, women, and children at armageddon? If they don't have the stomach for it now, when will they "get it"?

Oldseeker