GinnyTosken

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Posts by GinnyTosken

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  16

  First Post

  by DINKY in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey guys!

  i've been lurking for 2 yrs and finally decided to post.

  seems like y'all need some new blood around here.

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  GinnyTosken

  Welcome, DINKY!

  Now, just lie down on the jw.com couch and . . .

  Ginny
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  7

  Hillary 3 - "why don't I make us a cup of ...

  by Duncan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you get an old copy of the guinness book of world records say, from 1972 or 1973 and look it up youll find the following reference:.

  window cleaner the worlds worst.. undoubtedly the very worst window-cleaner in the world, and in the whole history of window cleaning, is an individual known as brother duncan in the london new-suburb congregation of jehovahs witnesses.

  this utterly inept incompetent attempts to make a living by this means without ever having the acquired slightest skill or aptitude for the art.

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  GinnyTosken

  Do you think it was Van Morrison's association with Jehovah's Witnesses that led him to write "Cleaning Windows"?

  What's my line?
  I'm happy cleaning windows
  Take my time
  I'll see you when my love grows
  Baby don't let it slide
  I'm a working man in my prime
  Cleaning windows...

  from http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/lyrics/beautiful.html#track6

  See also: "Kingdom Hall"
  http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/kingdom.html

  Oh, they were swingin'
  Down at Kingdom Hall
  Oh, bells were ringin'
  Down at the Kingdom Hall

  from http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/lyrics/wavelength.html#track1

  Ginny

  P.S. BluesBrother, yours was the very first rated "R" movie I sneaked out to see as a naughty 17-year-old JW. It was just my luck that two stalwart bastions of our congregation happened to sit down right behind me. ("Pssst, Vernon! Isn't that Ginny Tosken?!") I fled from the theater in terror. These bastions later explained that they had only attended under the corrupting influence of their DFed son. I was 30 before I saw the whole movie.
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  7

  Hillary 3 - "why don't I make us a cup of ...

  by Duncan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you get an old copy of the guinness book of world records say, from 1972 or 1973 and look it up youll find the following reference:.

  window cleaner the worlds worst.. undoubtedly the very worst window-cleaner in the world, and in the whole history of window cleaning, is an individual known as brother duncan in the london new-suburb congregation of jehovahs witnesses.

  this utterly inept incompetent attempts to make a living by this means without ever having the acquired slightest skill or aptitude for the art.

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  GinnyTosken

  Duncan,

  I am savoring your story and look forward to the next installment.

  I did not wash windows as a pioneer, but I did work in the office of a brother's janitorial firm. My favorite product was the Ettore Steccone squeegee. Such an exciting Italian name to be lavished on a lowly squeegee!

  Ettore Historical Window Cleaning Collection:
  http://www.ettore.com/brochure_eng/pg2_3.htm

  I wonder if Madonna's life would have been different had her last name been Steccone rather than Ciccone?

  Ginny
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  4

  Hillary 2 (He's actually in this one)

  by Duncan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, i had left school and was embarking upon my theocratic career as a pioneer.... there was already an established pioneer group in the congregation it consisted of 4 or 5 older unmarried sisters in their late twenties/thirties, and a similar number of just-left-school young brothers.

  the two groups had practically nothing to do with each other.

  well, now i had a new gang, and i was immediately submerged in the new group culture.

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  GinnyTosken

  Well, Duncan, it might have been worse-- it's more typical in these dreams to arrive at school for a test only to discover that you're naked.

  I look forward to hearing the rest of your story and how you rose like a phoenix from the smoke and ash.

  Oh they used to laugh at me
  When I refused to ride
  On all those double decker buses
  All because there was no driver on the top

  Twisted Ginny
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  12

  NWT translation

  by apostate man in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been doing a lot of research lately on jws and the new world translation.

  through history, i found that king james, in 1604, ordered a commitee to accurately translate the original scriptures, from hebrew and greek, into the english language.

  this took 47 people 7 years to do and thus came up with the kj bible.

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  GinnyTosken

  TheOldHippie said:

  It is quite clear that in spite of some blunders, he ranks he NWT among the very best translations ever . . .

  An important question is, "What criteria does Jason BeDuhn use to rank the NWT among the best?" When I asked him in what ways it is superior, he praised a very slavish word-for-word correspondence in the English words used to parallel the Greek, "a 'hyper-literal' translation, it sticks very close to the Greek, even making awkward English reading." In the little bit of study I have done, I have noticed that the NWT uses this "slavish word-for-word correspondence" only when it suits them. If consistency will cast doubt on JW dogma, they will often use a different word or phrase to translate.

  See: http://www.eskimo.com/~jcw/jcw97.html

  The same question can be asked in regard to his praise for the Kingdom Interlinear. I wrote to him and asked, "Best in what way? Are there many interlinear New Testaments available?" He answered, "No, there are not very many. As I said, accurate, inexpensive (even more than I thought), and for the other reasons cited below."

  While a literal word-for-word translation was useful to BeDuhn in working with beginning Greek students, it is not particularly useful to people who want to read and understand the many idioms, colloquialism, and proverbs contained in the New Testament:

  BeDuhn used the KIT with his beginning Greek students and praised it for the very qualities the translators of the SV wish to avoid—a literal, word-for-word translation with little change in syntax. I understand now how this would be helpful to students of Greek who do want to wrestle with the meaning behind the literal words. Not being a student of Greek, I would rather rely on scholars who are knowledgeable of idioms, colloquialisms, and proverbs, and who are alert to spot puns and plays on words.

  There are many humorous examples on the net of what happens when someone translates literally word-for-word. A few of my favorites:

  Outside a Hong Kong tailor shop: Ladies may have a fit upstairs.
  In a Bangkok dry cleaner's: Drop your trousers here for best results.
  In a Copenhagen airline ticket office: We take your bags and send them in all directions.

  from "Prof. Jason BeDuhn letter on the NWT/KIT (part 1)"
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10361&site=3&page=1

  TheOldHippie also said:

  . . . and he is no way biased, he is theologically uninterested . . .

  Everyone has biases, including Jason BeDuhn. I'll temper that by saying that in my experience with him, I have felt it was his intent to be fair. Many ex-JWs sent Jason BeDuhn harsh e-mails after he was quoted in the Watchtower. Some ex-JWs were rude to him and behaved in ways I would consider unethical. I do wonder if Jason BeDuhn's experiences with ex-JWs have caused him to hold fast to his opinions as stated in the Watchtower and defend them.

  As far as I know, Jason BeDuhn does not try to defend a particular religion's dogma, but he is theologically interested in that he did his dissertation on Manichaeans, who propagated the idea of duality--good and evil, light and darkness, order and chaos. My own opinion is that Jason BeDuhn is influenced by his interest in Manichean thought. He mentioned to me that he admires JW's willingness to die for their beliefs.

  . . . he is a language man.

  Jason BeDuhn has studied several languages, including Greek, but Biblical Greek is not his area of specialization; his Ph.D. is in Comparative Studies of Religions. He used the KIT to help students who did not have a strong background in Biblical languages.

  See Jason BeDuhn's Curriculum Vitae:
  http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jdb8/jason-cv1.html

  Jason BeDuhn himself said, "Every translation is biased towards the views of the people who made it. It is hard to judge who is right and who is wrong simply by comparing versions. You must go back to the Greek." He asked for examples in "where the translators deliberately give a false meaning for a word or phrase. Not a meaning within the range of possibility for the Greek, but something actually false and ungrammatical."

  BeDuhn's request is almost impossible to satisfy. The translators of the KIT and NWT are anonymous. Even if one could verify the names of the translators, only those translators are in a position to know their intentions. Were they deliberately twisting the words in the Bible, or did they make honest mistakes?

  I do agree with TheOldHippie that it is best to be specific, compare translations, and study, and not just paint the NWT black because it is used by JWs.

  Ginny

  See also: "Prof. Jason BeDuhn letter on the NWT/KIT (part 1)"
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10361&site=3#124290
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  28

  A Realistic Assessment Of America - Or Not?

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is straight from today's sunday times.

  my guess is that what is written here pretty well typifies how most europeans regard america.. is it fair?

  andrew sullivan: a lesson for america-haters.

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  GinnyTosken

  I was in Paris briefly a few years ago, and I did not meet anyone who was rude or nasty.

  I did get a hoot out of watching "Beavis and Butt-head" dubbed into French.

  Handy phrase to remember: "Je ne parle pas français."

  FROGS

  Chapter 21

  1 But their practically unbroken string of humiliations in foreign affairs did nothing to make the Frogs more humble. After all, it was Frogs who invented culture and poetry and music and science and sex,
  2 And practically everything else, too,
  3 Which made them very proud of themselves,
  4 In fact, very very proud of themselves,
  5 In spite of the Franco-Prussian thing.
  6 And if they ever had the least inclination to feel even the tiniest bit humble, all they had to do to feel better was tell some foreigner about all of France's stupendous cultural accomplishments.

  from The Boomer Bible by R.F. Laird

  Ginny
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  9

  DEITY WANTED-Job Application

  by BoozeRunner in

  1. social
  2. humour

  deity wanted-job appl.. one experienced deity wanted.

  location:earth.

  duties to include, but not limited to:performanc of miracles, end to human suffering, wars, etc.. please apply online using application below.

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  GinnyTosken

  BoozeRunner,

  Your deity recruiting firm may want to check out the ads for used deities on the Detox site:

  http://www.catalaw.com/detox/used.shtml

  (More fun if you enter through the front door)
  http://www.catalaw.com/detox/

  Here are a few likely prospects:

  Name: Rebecca C. Collins
  Email: [email protected]
  Location: St. Petersburg, USA
  Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 at 19:20:11
  
  Used deity ad: FOR SALE: A God(s) of your choosing. Extremely expensive. Will cost you your humanity, your critical thinking skills, and $49.99 (each). !!! CAVEAT EMPTOR!!! When product arrives, the box may appear empty and/or the product may not perform to your expectations. However, seller assumes no liability. The defect is not with the product, but with the buyer (who is more than likely unworthy of the deity's favors). To attain the desired results, the buyer need only pray longer and believe harder. You may attempt a refund upon your demise, however, previous buyers must be satisfied as I have never had a refund request. Call NOW: 1-800-GET2-HEVN

  Name: David Wright
  Email: [email protected]
  Location: Albany, USA
  Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2001 at 20:41:05

  Used deity ad: One God free to good home. House broken and leash trained. Will sit, roll over and smite on command. Originally bought for kids but they out grew him when they started to go to school. Hate to see him mope around being ignored and disbelieved in. Ideal for ranting lunatic with no pants and poor hygiene. Does not like to be drawn into pro-life demonstrations, or schools.

  Ginny
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  28

  A Realistic Assessment Of America - Or Not?

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is straight from today's sunday times.

  my guess is that what is written here pretty well typifies how most europeans regard america.. is it fair?

  andrew sullivan: a lesson for america-haters.

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  GinnyTosken

  From The Boomer Bible: A Testament for Our Times by R.F. Laird:

  THE BOOK OF DAMN YANKEES
  OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE BOOK OF MANIFEST DESTINY

  Chapter 154

  1 And so, all of a sudden, it seemed like maybe the Yanks weren't quite as youthful anymore,
  2 Or as confident,
  3 Or as hopeful,
  4 Or as all-powerful as they had thought,
  5 Which is usually the first sign that a Chosen Nation isn't quite as Chosen as it used to be,
  6 And is maybe getting a little tired,
  7 And more than a little confused,
  8 And in need of some new ideas about how to live in a world that's a lot more complicated than it looks,
  9 Which is how it came to pass that the Brits extended a helping hand,
  10 And within months of Kennedy's funeral,
  11 Sent a great gift to their friends the Yanks,
  12 A gift designed to help educate the Yanks about the world,
  13 At long last,
  14 So that they would know how to face a future full of pain and suffering and failure,
  15 And how to get ready for the inevitable decline that befalls every Chosen Nation sooner or later,
  16 Which the Brits knew everything there was to know about,
  17 And wanted to share with their cousins across the sea,
  18 So that a day would eventually come when the Yanks were as bad at everything as the Brits had gotten to be,
  19 And maybe they would even forget how to build nuclear weapons properly,
  20 So that they wouldn't work,
  21 Just like everything the Brits made,
  22 Which would make the world safer,
  23 Unless it wouldn't,
  24 But what can you do,
  25 Because when the world is coming to an end,
  26 It's coming to an end,
  27 And it doesn't matter if it ends the American Way or the Russkie Way or the Brit Way,
  28 Because it's all the way of Mankind,
  29 And no one has ever thought of any other way,
  30 No matter how much they wanted to believe that they were different,
  31 Because a pointed stick is a cannon is a nuclear warhead,
  32 And a killer ape is a Roman is a Brit is a Kraut is a Yank,
  33 And being Chosen is a delusion is a lie is a joke,
  34 And so what can you do?
  35 Which is why the Yanks accepted the gift of the Brits,
  36 A little dubiously,
  37 But willing to listen,
  38 Because it was getting a lot harder to go on being proud and confident and hopeful about everything,
  39 Since nobody else was,
  40 And maybe it was time for the Yanks to pay attention to somebody else's ideas,
  41 For a change,
  42 And learn how to make it better the Brit way.
  43 Yeah yeah yeah

  Ginny "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" Tosken
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  9

  Memories of Hillary - Part I

  by Duncan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  upfront disclaimer: .

  i know its entitled memories of hillary, but an awful lot of this post is, in fact, all about me and our hero doesnt actually get much of a look-in in this part.

  but i need to tell the story right, and it starts with me.

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  GinnyTosken

  After reading Prisca's post, I'm confused.

  I didn't think Duncan was talking about university, but what is known in the U.S. as high school--grades 9-12, which you attend here at around ages 14 through 18. High school is free here unless you attend a private school.

  I just peeked at Hillary_step's "Memories of Duncan - Part 1."

  The English Master, referring to Duncan by name and extolling his virtues as an exceptional student, then went on to mystify us all with the news that Duncan was leaving school to become a window washer and to work full time for his ‘Jehovah’ religion. He was barely fifteen.

  from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20728&site=3

  Does the school system work differently in Australia? Is high school called "uni"?

  I bring this up because what is sad to me is that it wasn't just college and university that were frowned upon when I was young. Education of any sort was suspect, especially if it had no immediate practical application in JW life, even at public school.

  "Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? . . . For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. . . . but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong," (1 Corinthians 1:20, 25, 27)

  Ginny
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  7

  disfellowshipping is a blessing in disguise!!!!

  by singsongboi in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found this site by accident a couple of weeks ago -- i did not go looking for it, and felt no need for it..... reading the posts, was like entering an old house that i once lived in and was now abandoned -- the issues being discussed were like the furniture of the old house -- covered in dust and the crap of the ages.... but, as i stayed and read on and saw the pain that so many have, i started to think about the process that led us all here.. and my thoughts crystallised -- .

  i thought that i 'had' a good life as a witness -- yes i saw many things that i could question, but i accepted that old consolation that is offered when you have doubts - just wait on the lord brother - he will make all things clear in time...!!!.

  you know it's really strange that that expression is used so many times -- it leads me to think that so many must have doubts - even if unexpressed!

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  GinnyTosken

  Singsongboi,

  If you haven't already seen it, you may also enjoy reading Esmeralda's post, "Disfellowshipping: A protection in the end?"

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18180&site=3

  Ginny