DT

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Posts by DT

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  7

  Expelled, the movie

  by startingover in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  the movie isn't out yet but here is a preview:.

  http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playgroundvideo3.swf.

  i've got my opinions but would like to hear some of yours before i poison the well..

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  DT

  I think it is funny how they portrayed evolutionists as believing life came from mud animated by lightning. That's a pretty poor description in my opinion. However, it still seems more logical than the Bible description of men being made of dust animated by god. At least we have evidence that lightning exists. We also know that lifeforms are mostly made of water, which is lacking in dust. Given the evidence, I would have to favor the mud and lightning hypothesis.
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  24

  Defining God and Atheism

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic.

  i guess i like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist.

  to me, nontheist simply says what i am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

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  DT

  DT

  Logically, we can never know anything with complete certainty.

  I mean no disrespect. If you believe this to be true, why would you be surprised to find language elusive?

  I'm not surprised to find language elusive. It think part of the problem is that some people place too much trust in their perception of words. This is especially true about topics that people are emotionally involved in. Atheism in not just a description, it is a word that has been demonised and has changed in meaning as society changes. People often have strong emotional associations and outdated definitions in their mind when they use it. This causes problems in communication when others view the word differently. We can't avoid the fact that language is elusive, but we can avoid some of the problems when we recognise how elusive it can be.
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  35

  Surge in "anointed ones"

  by dozy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the nightmare scenario is slowly unravelling for the wts.. since 1935 , wtbts policy was to shut up the kingdom of heaven by implying that any new anointed was at best misled & at worst a fake.

  franzs replacement theory did little to help matters.

  this suppressed many jws from becoming anointed.. recent wt articles & changes in thought has resulted in a surge in jws claiming this status.

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  DT

  I suspect that they may have this planned out for decades into the future. In several years they may say something like we can't be absolutely certain whether the 144,000 is a literal number or just symbolic of a minority of Christians. Then several years after that, they may use stronger language. It's a good way to distract dubs from the nonarrival of Armageddon. When more dubs start claiming the heavenly hope, it might even give them reason to increase their enthusiasm and zeal for the kingdom busywork. The overworked elders might start to think of their reward as being a king and priest in heaven, rather than just a prince on earth.
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  24

  Defining God and Atheism

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic.

  i guess i like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist.

  to me, nontheist simply says what i am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

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  DT

  Thank you for all the insightful comments.

  What is your problem with the word "agnostic"? I believe it's the word you seem to be looking for.

  The term agnostic is a useful one and I sometimes feel comfortable applying it to myself. The problem I have is that it is very broad and has some negative connotations. I think I can illustrate one of the problems this way. When I was a JW and believed in the existence of Jehovah, I still admitted to myself that I was also an agnostic. Logically, we can never know anything with complete certainty. Even if the evidence seems overwhelming, we can never fully trust that our impressions of the outside world are accurate or that our ability to evaluate evidence isn't compromised. One definition of agnostic is one who believes that it isn't possible to have certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of a god or gods, so I believe that applied to me, even when I was a pretty strong theist. Some people even view themselves as agnostic theists. They may believe in a god, but openly admit that they don't have firm evidence for their belief.

  I'm definitely not a theist, so the term agnostic isn't very descriptive in my case. Some people view agnostics as not very interested in the question of god's existence or unwilling to expend the mental effort to evaluate the evidence. It's such a broad term that I'm sure that is true for some agnostics, but this isn't really fair the large number of agnostics that don't feel that way.
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  24

  Defining God and Atheism

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic.

  i guess i like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist.

  to me, nontheist simply says what i am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

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  DT

  To me, nontheist simply says what I am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

  This doesnt make sense grammatically.

  I AM an atheist is the same as I AM NOT a theist.

  There is a subtle difference between claiming to be an atheist and claiming to not be a theist. Historically, atheists were generally regarded as having a belief in the nonexistence of god or opposed to the idea of there being a god. Now, many people regard atheism as a broader term, including anyone who isn't a theist. Still the term carries some unfortunate connotations. I would prefer it if nontheist and atheist were strictly synonymous, but that's not how some people see it.
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  24

  Defining God and Atheism

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic.

  i guess i like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist.

  to me, nontheist simply says what i am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

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  DT

  I'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic. I guess I like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist. To me, nontheist simply says what I am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people. I don't mind saying what I am. I just wish the term atheist had a more consistent definition in the minds of those who use it. I also feel that the terms atheist and agnostic overlap, so I believe both apply to me even though both can include views that are not my own.

  Part of the problem is that all these terms are defined in relationship to the concept of god, another term that is poorly defined. I wish theists would better define the word god. However, most theists only believe in one god or a specific collection of gods, so they don't feel a need to use a term that is much broader than they need for their purposes.

  It is easy for me to declare that I am not a believer in Yahweh or Zeus. I would even be willing to say that I think the existence of either is very improbable. It's harder for me to express my view of the possibility of a god or gods in general, when I don't know what kind of hypothetical lifeforms would qualify as a god. For example, what if some alien planted primitive one celled organisms on earth that later involved into us and all other life on this planet? Would that alien be a god? In a sense it's not very important. It's just a matter of definition. On the other hand, the terms we use can indicate our stand on that and countless other scenarios.

  I'm just cautious about turning my ignorance into the illusion of knowledge or turning absence of evidence into evidence of absence. I think gods are improbable, but I am well aware that a small portion of the things I regard as unlikely may be true. I am confident that there are many unseen mysteries that we have not even thought of. I would hate for something as mundane as terminology to interfere with my ability to be open to new possibilities.

  What are your thoughts? Is anybody else concerned about how we define things like god and atheism?
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  8

  An update at the JW media site

  by DT in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i just received this email update from the jw media site:.

  "police officers and local officials of samarkand, uzbekistan, raided the.

  homes of jehovah's witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the.

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  DT

  how about a bit of balance and some respect for the victim/s and condemnation for this act of human rights violation.

  These types of human rights violations should be condemned. I also feel sympathy for the victims. However, look at the context. I believe it is entirely appropriate to point out the hypocrisy of an organisation that covers up cases of abuse, but will loudly advertise a case like this to the media when they think it will advance their goals. They have a right to protest these kinds of abuses and we have a right to protest the more serious abuses that occur in their organization.
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  8

  Nice Bunch Of Guys!

  by Outaservice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  subject: watchtower board of directors 1950's.

  knorrs board photo.

  board of directors of the watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.

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  DT

  I wouldn't want to meet that gang in a dark alley.
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  8

  An update at the JW media site

  by DT in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i just received this email update from the jw media site:.

  "police officers and local officials of samarkand, uzbekistan, raided the.

  homes of jehovah's witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the.

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  DT

  where's the second witness on that fondling abuse? The WT may be taking a news report at face value with no corroboration needed.

  Good point. It might be interesting to give them a call and ask if they have two or more witnesses for their accusations.
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  8

  An update at the JW media site

  by DT in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i just received this email update from the jw media site:.

  "police officers and local officials of samarkand, uzbekistan, raided the.

  homes of jehovah's witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the.

  1. 
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  DT

  I just received this email update from the JW media site:

  "Police officers and local officials of Samarkand, Uzbekistan, raided the
  homes of Jehovah's Witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the
  police station. A young woman, 17 years old, was stripped and fondled by
  an intoxicated police officer. All were verbally abused and threatened
  with physical assault."

  http://www.jw-media.org/index.html

  If their allegations are true, then it is appropriate for them to bring this to the media's attention. However, I can't help pointing out the irony that they go to great lengths to cover up abuse of minors when their own members are responsible.