DT

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Posts by DT

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  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

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  DT

  I thought I should clarify my moral position. I'm not advocating lying about Jehovah's Witnesses. People deserve to know the truth and lying or exaggerating about Jehovah's Witnesses is wrong. It is also usually counter productive. But even when it isn't, I wouldn't argue that the end justifies the means.

  What I am saying is that I'm attacked (or my family is attacked) with a weapon or other device, then it is morally acceptable to use that weapon against the attacker. If someone attacks me with a bat, I will try to steal that bat from him and use it to defend myself, if necessary. The Watchtower Society uses a number of tools to control and intimidate its members. I do think it's justified to use these tools against them, if possible.
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  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  factfinder,

  Thank you for your comments. About the magazines, it's not really stealing of they give them away. It may not be wise to take a lot, but it's not hard to take a few and dispose of them in a more responsible manner. The fact that they are giving them away is a kind of fraud. They are doing this to avoid sales taxes. They would rather give them away and collect donations tax free. That's their decision, but they should calculate the extra cost of people who will take them for free and recycle them rather than distribute them to the public. I think it's also fair that intimidating people to stay in the organisation should have some sort of cost. Wasted literature is an example.

  About the time slips, I view it kind of like if you knew your phones were tapped by a government or organisation that was trying to collect information against you. I would avoid saying anything that can incriminate me and might even plant some misleading information in my conversations. The Watchtower Society has no right to collect written reports about the amount of time their members spend in "sacred service". Yet they do, and are happy to use this information against it's members. Not turning in a time slip can result in harassment and be a signal that the person should be observed for other possible offenses. I don't have a problem with planting misleading information when I am being spied upon. I realise that some people might view it differently.

  I should clarify that I'm out of the organisation and have never falsified my time or taken literature to throw away. I personally valued my freedom more than my relationships with my friends and family. If I had closer family in the organization, I might have made a different decision, so I sympathise with all those who are in but would prefer to leave.
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  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  factfinder,

  Suppose you had a family member who was kidnapped. The kidnappers contact you and tell you not to call the police and begin telling you their demands. You decide that you should call the police. They work with you and and instruct you to take the calls and pretend like you haven't spoken to the police and carry on other deceptions.

  Yes, this is lying, but is it wrong? How can an organization who commits crimes against people and families expect total honesty from the people they are oppressing, especially if they will use this information to cause further harm?

  The Watchtower Society gathers information to control their members. I feel it is completely justified to interfere with this. I think it is also appropriate to interfere with their distribution of harmful magazines to an unsuspecting public.

  If the Watchtower Society would just let people leave with dignity and without sanctions, then it might be a different story. But, they have to realise that people who are trapped will fight back.
• 
  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  "When a person does not report time for month they are not counted as active publisher that month and total publisher reporting count goes down by one. If they hand in a late report the next month along with the current report for that month the publisher count goes up by two. Anyone turning two reports for the same month would be flagged."

  Thank you. That is kind of what I was thinking for August 2013 especially. Handing in a late report won't effect the average, but it does artificially inflate the world wide peak pubs for the year. The Witnesses seem to highlight that number even though they know it's inaccurate. If some people were going to leave or become inactive in 2014, it would be a way to make it look like a bigger exodus than it really is.
• 
  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  "I feel like the key is to coordinate faders who intend to leave and get them to hang on until a particular date, say the 2014 Memorial, and just quit en masse then."

  I think that is a good idea. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of media coverage about the 100th anniversary of 1914. If people left in groups it could be very newsworthy.
• 
  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  What are the policies for those who record the time cards? Are the time cards destroyed after they are recorded? Are there any easy ways to mess with the figures without getting caught? How about those who order the magazines? If some publishers take a lot to throw away, will they just order more? I think that could really add up over time.
• 
  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  I think some of us are underestimating how many people are trapped in the organization who want to leave but can't. The problem is that they are usually prevented from having a voice. Most organizations couldn't survive with that level of internal disagreement, but the Watchtower is brutal enough to keep limping along.

  I want to show that there are things that can be done to waste their resources and confuse their information gathering. There may also be some apostates who collect time cards or do other record keeping that may be in a position to distort their statistics in a more meaningful way.
• 
  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  I think this is an easy way to sabotage the Watchtower power structure. They rely on statistics for decision making and for allocating resources. If we can help mess with their reporting system, even a little bit, it will increase their paranoia and reduce their ability to make informed decisions.

  As an example, if apostates report more magazines placed, it will likely result in more magazines being ordered and cause some financial damage. It's not much, but it's something and many who are trapped may welcome anything that can be easily done to reduce the influence of the Watchtower Society.

  Planting bad information is an essential battle tactic. Why wouldn't we want to do the same thing for an organisation that is holding many of our friends and relatives hostage?
• 
  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  Another idea is to not turn in a timeslip for July in 2012 and 2013, but turn in two for August for those years. If no timeslip is turned in for August 2014 it will make a difference of a two publisher decline for every apostate who does this. If only a few hundred apostate do this, it could make a significant dent. There is even a small chance it could turn an increase into a decrease for certain countries, if not the whole world.
• 
  35

  A Sneaky Way To Mess With Watchtower Statistics

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society is addicted to numbers and growth.

  the problem is that their very existence is justified by a preaching work that is intended to result in growth.

  other religions don't have that kind of pressure.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  DT

  "What are a few dozen (or hey, optimistically a few hundred) time reports going to do?"

  Probably not much on a worldwide scale, but a couple in a congregation could have a dramatic effect and might even cause some panic among the elders when the stats start to decline for their congregation and they don't know how to fix it.