Please see these other threads for some important developments in this case.
Posts by DT
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243Victoria, Australia: Steven Unthank's Press Release: JW's Hierarchy Formally Charged Today With Child Abuse
by AndersonsInfo injehovah's witnesses hierarchy charged.
immediate press release: 26 july 2011. link to this press release: http://wp.me/p1g1hc-4o.
worldwide church hierarchy charged with child abuse.
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Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses to Escape Judgment for Crimes Against the Children?
by 3Mozzies infrom jw newshttp://jwnewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/governing-body-of-jehovahs-witnesses-to-escape-judgment-for-crimes/.
governing body of jehovahs witnesses to escape judgment for crimes against the children?february 20, 2012 .
corporate accused: watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, inc.. case no.
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DT
I wonder if there is a reluctance to prosecute the leaders of one of the major religions started in America during an election when one of the leading candidates is a member of one of the other major American religions.
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WE NEED TO E-MAIL THE PROSECUTOR RIGHT NOW !!!!
by Phizzy inwe need to e-mail the state prosecutor in steven unthanks case right now , please see 3mozzies thread "the governing body to escape ..........".
stevens letter and the e-mail addy are on there.. .
please do it folks, let the guy know the world is watching.
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DT
I sent this email.
Dear Mr. John Chapman SC,
I was recently made aware of your correspondence with Mr. Steven Unthank regarding the prosecution of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses and other corporations for multiple violations of the Working With Children Act.
You suggested that continuing that case was not in the public interest.
I fail to see how the prosecution of serious crimes against children could not be in the public interest.
This case has been intensely scrutinized by thousands of people around the world who care deeply about the protection of children. I am not an Australian citizen, but I will do what is in my power to continue bringing this case to the world's attention.
You have an opportunity and responsibility to stand up for the rights of the children in your area. Failing to live up to this responsibility will put you in the same category as those who abuse children or look the other way.
The world is watching! Be careful that your heartless (or careless) words about protecting children not being in the public interest don't come back to haunt you.
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Where is the second witness? (Russell and 1914)
by DT ini have been doing some reading about the millerites and the "great disappointment" of 1844. i cant help but to notice some similarities between the millerites and russell.. the millerites also used a prophecy of 2,520 years, but chose a different starting point.
they also appear to have initially forgotten the zero year, but later corrected their mistake.. i think it's interesting that the millerites had two prophecies that they thought pointed to 1844 (one dealing with 2,520 years and another with 2,300 years).. this kind of makes sense (if you try to relate to their world view), because the bible says that you need two witnesses to establish something.
a person can shuffle numbers in the bible all day, but it's not likely to mean much.
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DT
"What do you imply?
So are you the second Witness? Or you refer to another prophecy?"
I'm implying that there isn't a second witness. Russel said that the Great Pyramid in Egypt was a witness written in stone and pointed to 1914. He may have realised that his prophecy about 1914 may not have made much of an impression if it didn't have some kind of confirmation from another source. It's ironic that his prophecy is still taken seriously by some even though the confirming witness is now regarded as a fraud.
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Where is the second witness? (Russell and 1914)
by DT ini have been doing some reading about the millerites and the "great disappointment" of 1844. i cant help but to notice some similarities between the millerites and russell.. the millerites also used a prophecy of 2,520 years, but chose a different starting point.
they also appear to have initially forgotten the zero year, but later corrected their mistake.. i think it's interesting that the millerites had two prophecies that they thought pointed to 1844 (one dealing with 2,520 years and another with 2,300 years).. this kind of makes sense (if you try to relate to their world view), because the bible says that you need two witnesses to establish something.
a person can shuffle numbers in the bible all day, but it's not likely to mean much.
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DT
I have been doing some reading about the Millerites and the "Great Disappointment" of 1844. I cant help but to notice some similarities between the Millerites and Russell.
The Millerites also used a prophecy of 2,520 years, but chose a different starting point. They also appear to have initially forgotten the zero year, but later corrected their mistake.
I think it's interesting that the Millerites had two prophecies that they thought pointed to 1844 (one dealing with 2,520 years and another with 2,300 years).
This kind of makes sense (if you try to relate to their world view), because the Bible says that you need two witnesses to establish something. A person can shuffle numbers in the Bible all day, but it's not likely to mean much. However, if you find two prophecies that seem to point to the same time period, then you might have something. It would make sense to ignore numerical speculations, unless there was some kind of confirmation. You wouldn't expect God to provide a lonely prophecy that would just get lost among an endless stream of idle speculations.
Russell followed this same model when he used a prophecy in Daniel and pyramidology to point to 1914. The JWs still accept the prophecy in Daniel but have renounced the pyramidology. That leaves only one witness to testify to 1914. They can't claim that the fulfillment is the proof because their expectations about 1914 failed. There current understanding came after the fact.
It seems that even if the other problems with 1914 were overcome (Jerusalem not being destroyed in 607 BCE, no mention of a second fulfillment of the prophecy, uncertainty about the number of days in seven times, and so on), there still wouldn't be a Biblical basis to accept the prophecy as anything more than idle numerical speculations.
Some might point to Jesus' prophecy about the last days, but this gives no way of predicting the date 1914. There also isn't any Biblical indication that Jesus' words and the prophecy in Daniel are talking about the same thing.
So where is the second witness?
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Seven Times Do Not Equal 2,520 Days
by DT inhow long is seven times?
it's important to note that the bible doesn't say.
jehovah's witnesses have calculated that it comes to 2,520 days.
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DT
Thank you for your comments.
I was wondering if anybody had any comments on why the Bibles mentions times at all. Why not just use the word year? I have read that the word time doesn't actually refer to a type of year, but refers to variety of different time periods like days or years and you have to rely on the context to determine what is being discussed. If the context suggests a year, then how can a person justify using one type of year top determine the number of days in a prophecy and then multiply that by a different kind of year? It seems that an intelligent God would require some kind of consistency and limit the possible number of permutations if he wanted anybody to understand a prophecy.
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Seven Times Do Not Equal 2,520 Days
by DT inhow long is seven times?
it's important to note that the bible doesn't say.
jehovah's witnesses have calculated that it comes to 2,520 days.
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DT
How long is seven times? It's important to note that the Bible doesn't say. Jehovah's witnesses have calculated that it comes to 2,520 days. They reason that the Bible indicates that a certain time period of three and have times was identified as 1,260 days. They then double this to get 2,520 days without paying attention to how the ancient calender worked.
The problem is that three and a half times could be equal to either 1,260 days or 1,290 days depending on whether there is a leap month of thirty days added to keep their times in sync with the seasons. Indeed, both time periods are featured prominently in the Bible. Seven times can be the result of 1,260 days added to 1,290 days for a total of 2,550 days, but it cannot be 2,520 days since this differs from seven years (365 1/4 days x 7 or 2556.75 days) by more than one thirty day month. An extra month would have to be added at some point.
A JW might object that this kind of nitpicky argument isn't important. They might reason that their prophecy pointing to 1914 after seven prophetic times of 2,520 years has a certain simplicity to it and that God never intended for his servants to be distracted by these kinds of details.
This argument is flawed because they claim that this same prophecy had a first fulfillment when Nebuchadnezzar became insane for seven times. Assuming this actually happened as prophesied, then this would have literally happened for a specific number of days. You can only apply the day for a year rule after you learn the number of days involved in the first fulfillment.
It could not have been 2,520 days. Daniel 4:32 says, "Vegetation they will give even to you to eat just like bulls, and seven times themselves will pass over you" At least one of those times would have had to have an extra leap month. If the insanity ended after only 2,520 days, the final time would not have passed over and the prophecy would have failed.
It should also be noted that a period of seven times could also have two leap months for a total of 2,580 days. Daniel doesn't specify the number of days. In other places in the Bible, the exact number of days is specified when there is possible ambiguity and when the exact number is important. Here it isn't. It's reasonable to conclude that it's not mentioned because it's not important. There is nothing to indicate that this prophesy was meant to have a second fulfillment. Otherwise, it would have been important to specify the exact number of days involved so the second fulfillment could be calculated.
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Net site for ex-jw dating, any out there?
by jam ini was thinking about this because it appear that so many.
young ones are coming out.
person i would want to date was a ex-jw.. i look at the young lady my son is dating and they have.
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DT
I have several dating sites that use a white label platform. They are easy to start because they make use of a database of millions of members on a variety of sites.
These members often identify their religious preferences when filling out their profile, so if you want the site to be limited to a certain religion, you just have to limit the membership criteria to the portion of the database that identifies themselves with that religion. I know that there is at least one JW site that uses the same white label platform.
I have thought about setting up a JW or XJW site. An XJW dating site would be difficult because there is no selection criteria for former members of religions. A strictly JW site would also be problematic because there is no way to provide the security that devout JWs want in a dating site. I know there have been numerous complaints from JWs who are upset when they are contacted by people that they view as undesirable or not righteous enough. I wouldn't use that niche because complaints would be inevitable and I could lose my account and my other sites.
However, it wouldn't be too difficult for someone else to set up a site with the realization that they could eventually lose their account. It could be marketed towards JWs that are somewhat liberal or are fading or no longer believe. Of course many of the profiles would come from other sites where they have different expectations. It could be a lot of fun for someone who enjoys causing mischief or has a sincere interest in helping the portion of JWs who don't believe to find like minded individuals.
If anybody wants to try something like that, I would be pleased to provide some technical assistance. You wouldn't need hosting, but you would need a good domain name. I would also recommend privacy for the domain name to reduce possible harassment from devout JWs.
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2010 Online Geoengineering survey by University of Calgary, Harvard University and Simon Fraser University. Did you take the survey?
by strymeckirules ingeoengineering survey .
have you ever heard of geoengineering?
what do you think geoengineering is?
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DT
I have read about about solar radiation management. I don't know enough to endorse it, but I think it would be valuable for more people to be made aware of it and to publicly debate its advantages and disadvantages.
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Are we living with the last generation of Scientologists?
by Gayle inhttp://www.thevine.com.au/news/current-affairs/know-this-tv-binging,-immaterial-products,-scientology's-end,-italian-tears,-the-kickstarter-scam20120122.aspx.
are we living with the last generation of scientologists?
over the past decade, membership has dropped in the us by 20,000. in an article for lrb titled "religion, grrrr" rachel aviv reviews one of the only academic studies of scientology to date.
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DT
I'm not sure about Scientologists, but I"m pretty sure we're seeing the last generation of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's just hard to say how many times that generation will overlap.