Suppose a woman catches her husband in the act, but he later denies anything happened and recieves no congregational discipline. I wonder what would happen if the wife decides to remarry. She knows she is scripturally free, but can't prove it. I wonder if the elders would then take action against her.
Posts by DT
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29
Breaking the Watchtower into Two Opossing Camps, Possible?
by Scott77 inis there a possibility that the watchtower will be split into two opposing camps at sometime in the foreseeable future?
judging from the past, do we envisage such a scenario happening before our eyes?.
scott77.
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DT
As some have already mentioned, the Watchtower Society has already split into a large number of corporations. They are working together for the moment, but it wouldn't take much for some to decide to leave and possibly take significant assets with them.
The governing body has done much to try to distance themselves from this corporate structure. I could see a coup taking place where the governing body is forcibly removed and made the scapegoat for the policies that expose the organization to legal liability. Their efforts to shield themselves from liability might actually make them powerless to stop this kind of rebellion once it starts.
If some kind of split takes place, then there is the question of whether one or both groups would seek help from the courts. They might actually prefer to lose some assets then to allow their dirty secrets to come out in court. I could see court involvement leading to information being uncovered that could lead to massive lawsuits or even jail time for some Watchtower officials.
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78
Atheism or Agnosticism, which one is correct?
by Joey Jo-Jo inthis has been bugging me for a while, and while i dont want to turn this into something about semantics i think that we should quickly define what an agnostic and atheists are.. richard dawkins defines 7 different types of atheist ranging from weak to militant atheists, but along these definitions there appears one definition with a strong resemblance to agnosticism.. to me an agnostic is a person who neither believes nor disbelieves in deity/deities, but there are those who define agnostics as a ignorant who simply just don't care or don't have the intelligence to come to sound conclusion.. an atheist can be a person who disbelieves in a deity/deities based on the current mathematical and scientific understandings of the universe, as well as understandings that can refute certain religions such as the strong influence of protestantism christianity in america.. .
from here i will refer deity as anything ranging jehovah to a real spaghetti monster, it's not important because a) we dont know b)for the purpose of this discussion it is not important to define what we believe god to be.. an argument that can be used about a deity is -we cannot prove nor disprove that god exists- this is referred to as a null hypothesis, an assumption that we cannot create a hypothesis to prove or disprove this deity.
this to me is agnosticism and is more correct than the idea of atheism.
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DT
It is common to view theism, agnosticism and atheism as a spectrum. This can be convenient since many people gradually shift their perspectives over time. However, this approach isn't really compatible with the meanings of the words themselves and can cause a lot of confusion. There is no need for the term agnosticism to fill in a gap between theism and atheism. Theism is a definite state of belief and atheism merely refers to those who don't have that belief, regardless of whether they lack belief or believe the opposite.
Agnosticism refers to lack of knowledge rather than lack of belief. Therefore, it includes some theists and atheists. I viewed myself as an agnostic, even when I had a positive belief in God, because I recognized the fact that I couldn't know for sure. Now, I still consider myself an agnostic, even though I am now an atheist. I can respect many atheists and theists, but I have a hard time respecting those who claim knowledge that they don't have.
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29
The Great Watchtower Internet Retreat
by DT inthere has been a lot of talk about the new watchtower internet strategy.
it appears that the watchtower is trying to improve their internet presence.
this could be true, but i think there are good reasons to think that the opposite might be the case.. i suspect that this new internet announcement was primarily designed to draw attention away from the announcement that they are cutting down on the printing of the magazines again.. they are basically dropping two of their websites and redesigning a website on a url that has the lowest rating of the three.
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DT
It's almost like they are giving up. They let an apostate in Australia dictate their policy on background checks. They're laying off workers and selling factory buildings. They're even going to shut down their main website. If they were a company, I would think they are going out of business.
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29
The Great Watchtower Internet Retreat
by DT inthere has been a lot of talk about the new watchtower internet strategy.
it appears that the watchtower is trying to improve their internet presence.
this could be true, but i think there are good reasons to think that the opposite might be the case.. i suspect that this new internet announcement was primarily designed to draw attention away from the announcement that they are cutting down on the printing of the magazines again.. they are basically dropping two of their websites and redesigning a website on a url that has the lowest rating of the three.
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DT
There has been a lot of talk about the new Watchtower Internet strategy. It appears that the Watchtower is trying to improve their Internet presence. This could be true, but I think there are good reasons to think that the opposite might be the case.
I suspect that this new Internet announcement was primarily designed to draw attention away from the announcement that they are cutting down on the printing of the magazines again.
They are basically dropping two of their websites and redesigning a website on a url that has the lowest rating of the three. This will probably result in less traffic and fewer search results listings. (Google usually allows a website to have one or two results per search. With three websites, they could really dominate the first page of search results for some terms. With only one site, their presence will be greatly reduced. They will also likely lose their number one rankings for some search terms, at least for a while.)
They are also going to lose their media site, which means that reporters doing research are likely to spend more time on sites that are critical of the Watchtower Society. They are also losing brand recognition for their Watchtower.org site.
Why would they make a change with so many disadvantages for their Internet presence? I think that they may be afraid. They may want to avoid the confusion of having multiple websites. If they can just have people type in a few characters (jw.org), they can reduce the chances that people will actually do a search for their websites and see links to apostate sites.
It will be interesting to see if they prominently advertise their new website on their new thinner magazines. If so, it would be an indication that I'm wrong and that they are interested in using the web as a way to get converts. However, I suspect that they don't really want people to use the Internet to do research about them.
It may be that their websites have done them more harm than good. They do get a small number of Bible study requests from their site, but they probably have greater losses from those who stumble on apostate sites while trying to find their websites. They have discovered that they can cut costs by offering downloads, but other than that, it appears that their Internet experiment has been a failure which could be a reason for reducing the number of their websites.
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13
Kid scores dream prom date, school won't ler her in to dance.
by JeffT inhttp://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/03/minn-school-quashes-seniors-bid-to-bring-porn-star-to-prom/1#.t2zgytwenrw.
minn. school quashes senior's porn-star prom date.
by douglas stanglin, usa today.
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DT
I assume it would sometimes be allowed to invite a date who isn't a student. If so, I'm concerned about the school making arbitrary judgements like this based on a person's occupation. That seems pretty discriminatory.
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34
Bart Ehrman...Jesus Existed
by XJW4EVR inwhen the uber-liberal, agnostic bart ehrman says it...it must be true.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html.
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DT
I have enjoyed Bart Ehrman's books in the past, but I'm not sure if can fully agree with him on this point. (I should point out that I haven't read his latest book yet.)
There is certainly enough evidence to suggest that Jesus may have existed or may have even probably existed, but to make a firm statement that he definitely existed is a little extreme in my opinion.
I don't think we know nearly enough about various first century sects and their writings to make definite conclusions about their motivations for telling and retelling the Jesus stories. There likely was a lot of dishonesty, exaggeration, and possibly telling stories with moral lessons that weren't meant to be taken literally. Many, if not most, of these writings may be lost forever. We also might not have any surviving information from some of the groups that contributed to these stories.
What if more than one person or some combination of real and fictitious characters contributed to the Jesus stories? I don't think we can rule this out. In this case, would it be fair to call Jesus a historical person? Would it be fair to call Paul Bunyun a historical person? Some of his stories may have also been inspired by one or more real people.
Would it be fair to say that Big Foot is real? The total amount of evidence for Big Foot far outweighs the amount of evidence for Jesus. The problem is that none of it is particularly reliable and most of it can be interpreted in more than one way. I think the same problems exist for the evidence for Jesus.
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DT
So if you are a prominent witness in one of those countries you could use your connections in the organization to pressure the parents to give you a good deal on an attractive women that none of the other brothers can afford. It's just another perk of being well connected. I'm sure the threat of possible disfellowshipping is a great bargaining tactic.
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How About A Preparing For A Judicial Committee Booklet?
by DT inimagine if someone prepared a small booklet about preparing for a judicial committee that could be shared as either an actual booklet or a pdf.. i think it would be best if such a booklet were written in a neutral, nonjudgemental way, but have quotes from the elder's book that discuss the various rules that relate to judicial committees.
a complete list of disfellowshipping offenses could also be useful.
it could end with a few strategies and tips for dealing with a judicial committee.. it's only fair that jw's have access to the actual rules of judicial committees.
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DT
I just had another idea.
Suppose, the cover of the booklet said something like, "Not for general distribution. A copy should be made available to those who are invited to a judicial committee."
This might overcome the common initial fear of apostate literature. Someone who looks at it might conclude that it is a real publication and that they are just being a little bit nosy by looking at it.
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12
How About A Preparing For A Judicial Committee Booklet?
by DT inimagine if someone prepared a small booklet about preparing for a judicial committee that could be shared as either an actual booklet or a pdf.. i think it would be best if such a booklet were written in a neutral, nonjudgemental way, but have quotes from the elder's book that discuss the various rules that relate to judicial committees.
a complete list of disfellowshipping offenses could also be useful.
it could end with a few strategies and tips for dealing with a judicial committee.. it's only fair that jw's have access to the actual rules of judicial committees.
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DT
Thank you for all your comments.
Unfortunately, I don't have time for a project like this at the moment, but I would be willing to consider it for the future. I would also be happy to support someone else who would like to try this.
There is already a lot of good information about this topic and some great ideas for a possible future publication.
I thought I would elaborate some more about my specific ideas if I end up working on this.
I would make current, believing Witnesses my focus. Although, I would want to help those who are facing a judicial committee, my main goal would be to provide access to the elder's secret rules. Although, the Watchtower Society is able to block distribution of the Elder's manual due to copyright, it's my amateur, nonlawyerly opinion that a booklet that makes use of appropriate fair use quotes from that book should be safe.
I think that a well designed booklet would be almost irresistable for some witnesses. Ideally, it would be nice for current elder to put the finishing touches on the booklet and express his opinion that the publishers should have access to the information so they can prepare themselves. (Of course, he should protect his identity.) I don't think it's necessary to criticise or have a negative tone. The quotes would mostly speak for themselves.
The final document could be shared on document sharing sites and even printed. If it's small enough, it could be hidden in Watchtower publications in the library or the literature counter. It could even be designed in a way that it looks like an official Watchtower publication.