DT

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Posts by DT

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  8

  The Watchtower Society Crossed a Line by Praising a "Slaughter of Apostates"

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just had to say it.

  i don't mean to detract from other threads on the topic.

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  DT

  I just had to say it. I don't mean to detract from other threads on the topic.
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  25

  Watchtower Hate Speech and Intimidation Might be a Violation of US Federal Law

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the united states is more lenient than most countries when it comes to hate speech and allowing organised religions to have their way, even when they hurt others.

  however, there are limits.

  i found a federal law that seems strangely relevant to recent watchtower articles that labels former members as "mentally diseased" and discuss the "slaughter of apostates".

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  DT

  If this hateful speech escalates or results in violence or other unlawful or intimidating actions, then it would be easier to make a case that a certain group of people (the governing body) actually conspired to interfere with the basic human rights of its members. This would especially be true if they persist in their actions despite worldwide media coverage and possible prosecutions in other countries. They won't be able to claim that they couldn't have predicted the results of their actions.

  They would probably claim that the courts don't have jurisdiction over their internal religous affairs, like they have in the past. The good thing is that law is designed to protect constitutional rights, so it might be harder to use freedom of religion as a defense.
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  25

  Watchtower Hate Speech and Intimidation Might be a Violation of US Federal Law

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the united states is more lenient than most countries when it comes to hate speech and allowing organised religions to have their way, even when they hurt others.

  however, there are limits.

  i found a federal law that seems strangely relevant to recent watchtower articles that labels former members as "mentally diseased" and discuss the "slaughter of apostates".

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  DT

  I agree that there are serious obstacles to confronting this type of intimidation in the United States. However, I think it is encouraging that there are already laws on the books that could address this if there is ever enough political will to do so.

  I also think that this involves much more than free speech. If I tell someone that I think it would be fun to see them put their hands in the air, that is free speech. If I also point a gun (or even something that looks like a gun) then it becomes a serious crime and act of intimidation. These articles are threatening, intimidating and accompanied by an entire system of procedures and statements that appear to be designed to deny people people's basic constitutional rights. They are also primarily the result of a single Governing Body who can be identified as the people who have conspired to produce this intimidation. The individual actions of shunning, disfellowshipping, hateful comments, etc. might not be crimes by themselves, but if they are intentionally used in combination as a way of denying people their rights, then a good argument could be made that they are violating the law. A prosecution based on this wouldn't have to be viewed as an attack on free speech.

  It's also interesting that the Watchtower Society's actions are primarily directed at their own members. Hateful comments may be less intimidating when the people making them don't also have the power to destroy your life. The Watchtower Society has this power over their members, which includes minors and people who are vulnerable in other ways, such as people who are mentally ill or physically dependent on the care of other Jehovah's Witnesses.
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  1

  Jesus is a "mentally diseased" apostate that must be "slaughtered" - sound familiar?

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  when jesus was on earth did he lead people to, or away from, the elders (pharisees) and governing body (sanhedrin)?.

  more apostate hating from the watchtower .

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  DT

  Maybe that's why he returned invisibly. If he made a personal appearance, who knows what the witnesses would have done to him.
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  41

  You All Need To Read This New Letter Sent To All Conregations In Victoria Australia About Police Checks For Elders

  by Hairyhegoat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  police minister peter ryan has written a letter to mr unthank advising that jw's are now applying, in mass, for the wwc in victoria.

  to little to late.

  criminal charges still stand and cannot be backdated!

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  DT

  I wonder what kind of an effect this will have on the witnesses. This resembles an admission of guilt for not following the law. Otherwise, they should have fought it. It seems that God forget to give them the right direction at the right time. This will also begin to reveal the extent of the pedophilia problem among Jehovah's Witnesses, with possible consequences for the whole world. I have to think that the primary motivation for complying was to avoid prison sentences and fines.
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  25

  Watchtower Hate Speech and Intimidation Might be a Violation of US Federal Law

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the united states is more lenient than most countries when it comes to hate speech and allowing organised religions to have their way, even when they hurt others.

  however, there are limits.

  i found a federal law that seems strangely relevant to recent watchtower articles that labels former members as "mentally diseased" and discuss the "slaughter of apostates".

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  DT

  The United States is more lenient than most countries when it comes to hate speech and allowing organised religions to have their way, even when they hurt others. However, there are limits. I found a federal law that seems strangely relevant to recent Watchtower articles that labels former members as "mentally diseased" and discuss the "slaughter of apostates".

  Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241
  Conspiracy Against Rights

  This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person of any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the United States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same).

  It further makes it unlawful for two or more persons to go in disguise on the highway or on the premises of another with the intent to prevent or hinder his/her free exercise or enjoyment of any rights so secured.

  Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to ten years, or both; and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years, or for life, or may be sentenced to death.

  source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/federal-statutes

  I'm not a lawyer, so these are just my opinions.

  This law isn't about shunning or expelling a member from an organisation. The US courts have been reluctant to interfere with these issues. However, the Watchtower Society has conspired to intimidate and threaten it's members to avoid any questions or challenges to their authority or even leaving the religion peacefully and quietly. The enforced shunning from friends and family is certainly part of this intimidation, but it also includes written comments demonising and insulting any who disagree or leave. This includes a recent article that gleefully discusses the "slaughter of apostates". The fact that they say that they don't do that today (there is no mention of tomorrow) doesn't change the fact that the article is extremely threatening and intimidating.

  Furthermore, the article is largely directed at current Jehovah's Witnesses who may be intimidated to attend public JW meetings and are then confronted by direct threats about the things that will and might happen if they dare to question anything that is taught or if they just try to leave or change religions according to their contitutional rights.

  I personally believe the discussion of the slaughter of a minority group who merely wish to exercise their freedom of (and from) religion, accompanied by both real and veiled threats and a range of official procedures and propaganda to further isolate and intimidate these people is a direct and blatent violation of this federal law.

  I welcome your comments.
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  69

  More apostate hating from the Watchtower

  by Igot2bme in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i ran across this post on fb-.

  the november 15, 2011 study version of the watchtower, has this to say in an article praising jehu's actions against the family of ahab.

  "the prophet elisha sent one of the sons of the prophets to anoint jehu as king and to instruct him to kill every male of the apostate house of ahab.2 ki.

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  DT

  Does any body know what company hosts the Watchtower websites, especially jw.org? Many webhosts take a dim view of distributing hate speach on their servers. Perhaps the Watchtower Society hosts their own websites. If so, they may still have to comply with certain laws that deal with hate speach.
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  69

  More apostate hating from the Watchtower

  by Igot2bme in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i ran across this post on fb-.

  the november 15, 2011 study version of the watchtower, has this to say in an article praising jehu's actions against the family of ahab.

  "the prophet elisha sent one of the sons of the prophets to anoint jehu as king and to instruct him to kill every male of the apostate house of ahab.2 ki.

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  DT

  I'm sure they wrote that article long before they had any idea that the "mentally diseased" article would blow up in their face. I wonder if their lawyers will place any pressure on them to stop distributing that issue. I doubt that they would because that would be a public admission that they made a mistake.
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  69

  More apostate hating from the Watchtower

  by Igot2bme in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i ran across this post on fb-.

  the november 15, 2011 study version of the watchtower, has this to say in an article praising jehu's actions against the family of ahab.

  "the prophet elisha sent one of the sons of the prophets to anoint jehu as king and to instruct him to kill every male of the apostate house of ahab.2 ki.

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  DT

  I think they trapped themselves with their own words. Yes they can argue that they're quoting someone and they aren't actually condoning the "slaughter of apostates" (today at least). Still, it is very hateful and provocative speach and they do present the "slaughter of apostates" in a favorable light. It appears that they are using this graphic language to desensitise their readers about the idea of doing other things that may still be illegal, including various types of discriminatioin.

  This language should be appalling to anyone who isn't a witness. It may also be very disturbing to many witnesses who don't know how to defend this kind of language.

  It may be helpful to remind witnesses that they believe in the concept of community responsibility and that if this provacative language leads to any violence or other illegal actions, then they will share in the guilt.
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  69

  More apostate hating from the Watchtower

  by Igot2bme in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i ran across this post on fb-.

  the november 15, 2011 study version of the watchtower, has this to say in an article praising jehu's actions against the family of ahab.

  "the prophet elisha sent one of the sons of the prophets to anoint jehu as king and to instruct him to kill every male of the apostate house of ahab.2 ki.

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  DT

  Calling apostates "mentally diseased" was incredibly stupid. Praising the "slaughter of apostates" takes this to an entirely different level. Saying that "Today, no servant of Jehovah uses physical force against opponents of pure worship." is not enough of a disclaimer. They say it was ok in the past so they could decide it is ok in the future. It also encourages other non violent actions that may still be in violation of the law.