Gopher

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Posts by Gopher

• 
  22

  New "The List" of... Times when JW's thought it was the end and it wasn't...

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think that there should be a list of the times when a certain world event got jw's thinking "this has got to be it!

  the start of armageddon!".

  it would be nice to have screenshots of twitter/facebook comments from actual jw's.... then come back to it 5, 10, 15 years from now and just say... nope... just another crisis in the world.... just this year there have been two:.

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  Gopher

  The scariest demons exist mainly in the minds of those who believe in demon tales.
• 
  13

  how many normal people would only go to the dub website?

  by purrpurr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all this campaign going on got me to thinking, a normal person having received a tract about the jw website, would they only go to that one website if they were in any way interested?

  would they really not click on any links that would also appear about jw's?

  would they really not read about them from other sources too?.

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  Gopher

  I think the WT Society knows that for thinking people, Watchtower doctrine is losing the battle in the Internet market of ideas.
  
  The JW.Org website, like the Watchtower magazine itself, serves best to reinforce the doctrine in the minds of those already held captive.
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  22

  New "The List" of... Times when JW's thought it was the end and it wasn't...

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think that there should be a list of the times when a certain world event got jw's thinking "this has got to be it!

  the start of armageddon!".

  it would be nice to have screenshots of twitter/facebook comments from actual jw's.... then come back to it 5, 10, 15 years from now and just say... nope... just another crisis in the world.... just this year there have been two:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Gopher

  Sorry - double post.
• 
  22

  New "The List" of... Times when JW's thought it was the end and it wasn't...

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think that there should be a list of the times when a certain world event got jw's thinking "this has got to be it!

  the start of armageddon!".

  it would be nice to have screenshots of twitter/facebook comments from actual jw's.... then come back to it 5, 10, 15 years from now and just say... nope... just another crisis in the world.... just this year there have been two:.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Gopher

  Here are some. I'm sure this list is not 100% complete of the times the WTS and JWs believed the end was surely near.

  1914: The supposed end of the Gentile times
  1915: Because the world didn't end in 1914, CT Russell moved the date back
  1925: Millions then living were supposed to 'never die' according to JF Rutherford
  Sometime in the 1940's: World War 2 was thought to be part of the great tribulation and lead to Armageddon
  Within this generation: from the 1950s to 1995 it was thought that those alive in 1914 would see Armageddon
  1975: We all know about this one, right?
  1986: The UN year of peace was thought by many JW's to be the time when the nations would say peace and security, bringining instant destruction upon them
  2000: In the 1970s their book interpreting Ezekiel said the end would come in this century
  2001: The September 11 attacks were obviously the beginning of the end
  Very soon: Every time a natural disaster (like a great tsunami) occurs somewhere, it is obviously a sign the end is right around the corner.
• 
  13

  how many normal people would only go to the dub website?

  by purrpurr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all this campaign going on got me to thinking, a normal person having received a tract about the jw website, would they only go to that one website if they were in any way interested?

  would they really not click on any links that would also appear about jw's?

  would they really not read about them from other sources too?.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Gopher

  I think they're looking for people who follow directions like a "sheep" and therefore go directly to jw.org and are easily impressed misled.
  
  Those who go visit other sites and listen to "Satan's lies" (cough, cough) obviously do not deserve the fresh waters of truth that only the Jw.org river can provide. (I think I'm about to wretch now.)
• 
  3

  "Worse And Worse"? (Nope)

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.businessinsider.com/50-reasons-its-the-best-time-in-history-2014-1.

  i would quibble with the life expectancy a little ( averages derived from a time with higher infant mortality) but still pretty good.. .

  metatron.

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• 

  Gopher

  Yes the tire canards of end-time religions like Watchtowerism fly in the face of actual social trends. They decry worldwide war for example, which is strictly a phenomenon of the first half of the 20th century. They used to decry air and water pollution as signs that man is "ruining the earth" (Revelation 11:18) and so the end must be near. Since then, many modern / modernizing countries (aside from India and China) have seen dramatic improvements in air and water quality.
  
  However, people see what they want to see - and religious leaders will spin things as they wish - but the JW's are looking more and more like the lonely man on the street corner proclaiming "the end is near" with nobody in particular really listening.

  
• 
  38

  Atheism and Theism are only partly right!

  by abiather in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  today we know that matter and energy are interchangeable, hence they are there always in either form, they are eternal, hence requires no creator.

  hence atheism is right in rejecting a creator, but failed in providing any motivation for people to do good.

  religions, in their effort to provide a motivating factor for humans to do good, introduced creation stories and other myths; hence they too are right (as far as their intention is concerned), yet failed in producing any worthy resultsworld was steadily moving from bad to worse and from worse to worst!.

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  Gopher

  Hence atheism is right in rejecting a creator, but failed in providing any motivation for people to do good.

  You lost me here, too. If you need motivation from an external source, such as a religion, to do good - then you aren't good in the first place - right?
  
  Hucksters using fear create false needs you didn't know you had, and then sell you a product to fill that so-called need. Religion creates fear of a bad afterlife or that you're out of favor with their preferred deity, and then sell you 'salvation' to be redeemed from 'sin'. No thanks to any of that.
  
  And as for whether I as an atheist have any motivation to be moral, definitely yes - it comes from within. To put it mildly, I don't want to go crap in my own back yard. I feel accountable to many people to be my best - including workmates and managers, my family and friends, my neighbors. If I want the world to be a really good place then I have to contribute my part by being really good, honest and hard-working. See - no need for religion there! It's pure humanism. Even religious people can do much good out of pure humanism.
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  26

  Elder and i discussed beards, and got into rules and regulations

  by Jon Preston in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during a study the elder brought out that eating blood and omens are from the devil, and brought me to leviticus 19:26 (i think).. in verse 27 i says this:.

  you must not shave the hair on the side of your head or disfigure the edges of your beard.. i said: "so why are we not allowed to have beards?".

  elder: "thats a good question, cleric.

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  Gopher

  JF Rutherford didn't like beards - perhaps he wanted to break off from CT Russell's aura.
  
  In any case he made certain that his WT society made guidelines against beards. The guidelines have been part of JW culture for so long, that they're surely a tradition instead of anything based on the Bible. Meaningless religious traditions, strictly enforced, are surely the domain of Pharisees.
• 
  78

  Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.

  did jesus actually exist?.

  without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..

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  Gopher

  OK - Runfast. Time for a reply:

  I believe in the message of jesus. I don't have to prove anything. You can believe whatever you want. have fun.

  If you really cannot prove anything, is your faith based perhaps on a fantasy or tall tales passed down from misty ancient times? If the evidence for Jesus were solid, there'd be nothing left to "believe". It would be fact.
  
  There is no need to downgrade others who don't want to believe but rather ask for verification about fantastic beliefs or statements.

  In the old days they would stone you for your beliefs.

  True. Or actually to put it more correctly, they might stone you for your non-belief. Or in the Inquisition you could have been subjected to any number of torture devices. This shows the dangers of "belief" systems run amok, especially with insecure people at the controls. Secure people have no need to physically force others to try to get them to believe the same, and have no need to physically harm or kill people who don't accept non-factual faith-based dogma.

  In the Jayhole house of horror they stone you too.

  Not sure if you can equate shunning to stoning, but both types of discipline are imposed by those who are insecure of their positions.

  It seems like the most wild eye'd former jw's are the most outspoken athiests.

  First - the word should be spelled 'atheists'. I guess "wild eyed" is in the mind of the beholder. The reason ex-JW's often become atheists is that because we were so thoroughly deceived and exploited by a religious system (more so than people who spent much time in other milder, less-demanding religions) that we felt the need to go back and re-examine everything we were ever taught about God and spirituality.
  
  Atheism is actually the default position with which we are born. Belief in specific gods and deities only comes from human tradition and teaching, sometimes at the point of a sword or from people who threatened to stone anyone who didn't follow their program. So maybe atheism is just a lack of belief, a certain skepticism, rather than 'wild-eyed' craziness. Maybe there is a certain reason and thoughtfulness behind it.

  and i could pretty much care less because i never walked in their shoes.

  And that's pretty much the point -- most of us as atheists DID walk in believers' shoes at one point, because we were taught that way or convinced of it earlier in our life. And you who have never been on the other side of the fence -- you come on here and cast aspersions on the minority in society called atheists, just because their viewpoint differs from yours. I hope you don't wish us to be stoned (in the violent sense, not the drunken sense).
• 
  36

  Does anyone know the curent understanding on Chess for JWs?

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i seem to remember chess was frowned upon by some jws.

  is this like the oral/anal sex policy?

  just ignore it and hope it goes away...

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  Gopher

  Couldn't chess be justified by the JW's as preparation for their "spiritual warfare"? After all, they're constantly talking about how JW's are in a kind of spiritual warfare with "Satan's system".