Gopher

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Posts by Gopher

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  43

  May 15 2013 WT: "REAL elders skip meals and lose sleep!"

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  finally we have the society's expectations of elders in print.. this is from page 9 of the may 15th study edition.... "as indicated by the experiences of the apostle paul, our ministry may result in sleepless nights and times without food.

  (2 cor.

  6:5) these expressions paint a vivid picture of self-sacrifice and may well remind us of pioneers who give their ministry first place in life while supporting themselves financially.

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  Gopher

  That's a nice sentiment coming from the comfortable ivy-tower-land where the 8 members of the Faithful Slave reside and work rule.
• 
  160

  I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.

  people will believe what they want to believe..

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  Gopher

  "annoyance at the threads I see where atheists are sniping at religious people and saying, "I'm just sticking up for the facts and fighting ignorance", when all you're doing is harm to your position in the eyes of the people you're supposedly trying to convince".

  As an atheist who (I think) doesn't rudely dismiss people who disagree, I see what you're trying to say. As for the atheist / believer divide, there are certain memes that insensitive / ignorant people on both sides try to advance. I dislike it when atheists say believers don't or won't use their brains, and I also dislike it when believers say atheists cannot be moral people and try to make it appear that atheists are some kind of organized religion. (Atheists can be moral people - Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are wonderfully charitable billionaires who are definitely nonreligious and possibly atheist.)

  Atheists are still a picked-on minority. The zeal of a vocal segment of believers to try to demonize/discredit them show the worst side of religious belief. That treatment and that kind of marginalization (sometimes enforced by law) leads a few atheists to seem quite militant - an attempt to match the intensity of the other side.

  Personally my secular humanism is more of a live-and-let-live type of approach. There are good, thinking, caring people on both sides of the believer / skeptic divide. Goodness or thinking ability is not the sole possession of one or the other side.
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  29

  Letter: 30 hour quota to be extended to additional months

  by 88JM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  read out at the service meeting this week.. ===================================.

  january 21, 2013. to all congregations.

  re: thirty-hour quota for auxiliary pioneering.

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  Gopher

  I am old enough to remember when auxiliary pioneering was called vacation pioneering, and required 75 hours per month (as opposed to the 100 hours the regular pioneers were expected to perform).
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  26

  I MADE A HUGE MISTAKE

  by iclone in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-ca</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:enableopentypekerning /> <w:dontflipmirrorindents /> <w:overridetablestylehps /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="&#45;-" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:en-us;} </style> <![endif].

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  Gopher

  The last meeting I attended was at a hall other than my own in the Twin Cities, because I was giving the JW's one last chance. A well-respected longtime elder from Minneapolis was giving a Sunday public talk, during which he ticked off a long list of unorthodox beliefs of JW's including 1914 - and said before each one in a semi-sanctimonious voice "and we believe....". I was still not mentally free at this point, but this helped steer me away from the organization.

  Oh and then the Watchtower study -- what a snoozer! Hardly anyone was raising their hand, the old brother leading the study was droning on and on, it seemed half the audience was asleep (as I was watching from the back of the room).
  
  This was a fitting end to my long career of Kingdom Hall attendance.
• 
  160

  I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.

  people will believe what they want to believe..

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  Gopher

  As to the dictionary-definition thing: we are dealing here with STANDARDS not facts. As Tammy/TEC pointed out, these can change over time. "Shambles" once meant a meat market. "Meat market" came to mean a place where hunks hang out. "Hunks" came to mean men considered sexually attractive. "Attractive" is in the eye of the beholder.

  1+1 is 2, unless you are using a binary (base 2) numbering system in which case 1+1 = 10. (Base 2 counting = 1, 10, 11, 100, 101, 110, 111, 1000, etc.)

  "The sun rises in the east" is considered a fact but in the summer it rises at a point north of east, and in the winter it rises at a point south of east - which is actually more factual than the simple saying "the sun rises in the east". But generally "the sun rises in the east" because it doesn't rise in the west, south or north.
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  26

  I MADE A HUGE MISTAKE

  by iclone in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-ca</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:enableopentypekerning /> <w:dontflipmirrorindents /> <w:overridetablestylehps /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="&#45;-" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:en-us;} </style> <![endif].

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  Gopher

  That was Greek to me.
• 
  140

  Super Bowl Predictions ?

  by Pterist in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  if it has not already been asked any predictions for the game tomorrow?.

  ravens 28 .

  49ers 27. .

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  Gopher

  Marta will be the MVP (Most Valuable Puppy) in Puppy Bowl IX on the Animal Planet Channel Febuary 3rd!
• 
  160

  I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.

  people will believe what they want to believe..

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• 

  Gopher

  "For some people, the facts of their life outweigh the facts of science."

  Science is forever involved in the search for actuality. These have helped humanity evolve beyond superstition. But I guess we can't expect everyone to go along with societal evolution, human nature being what it is.

  We all have at least some irrationality in us, otherwise we wouldn't be human. But IMHO one's life is most productive if it is lived with the acceptance of unassailable facts, once learned. I used to have as my fact that a God named Jehovah operated through a group of men in Brooklyn. I don't live by that "fact" any more and I much better off for it (even though I had to pay a price in the loss of friends and parents).
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  16

  Witnesses buying backpacks in spain

  by OwnAccord in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone heard any info about the backpack in the us?

  there's a topic with about 10 pages about it over in the spanish forum.

  http://www.extj.com/showthread.php?22472-la-mochila.

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  Gopher

  Armageddon must be coming soon!
• 
  28

  Has leaving the truth( i hate that word) caused you to do things now that you would not have normally done ?

  by sieborg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although we all know that there are many disadvantages of being brought up ( vomit sound) in the truth.

  but would you say that leaving has maybe caused you to do some things that you would not have normally have done in life ?

  for me personally now i have lots of free time ( mine all mine, evil laugh) i have almost finished my first novel.

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  Gopher

  No worries, it took me a little while to drop that phrase "the truth". As time goes, the old habits dry up and curl off.

  In the meantime if you catch yourself, you can substitute other phrases like "da troof", 'the Lie", "the Borg", "the organization", "the publishing corporation", "the Kingdumb Hell", etc.