Like Frankie Yankovic said... "Just BECAUSE".
Posts by Gopher
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46
WTS overboard w/suggested presentation
by doinmypart inthe nov 2013 km contains an article that is ridiculous in its level of minutae.. they focus on the word "because".
they tell jws to use the word "because" when explaining why they're at the homeowner's door.
writing department, you wrote an article on the use of the word "because"?
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167
this site sucks! its just a buncha athiest on soap boxes.
by crossquestions6995 inthis site is not a healthy forum for discussion or healing.
its an arena for jaded athiests to bash anything christian or god related.
yes, i know the jw's lied to us about god and the truth.
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Gopher
Hi CQ6995 - Thought I'd jump in with a brief reply.
There are those who may not be as aggresive in the God/Christian bashing. But unfortunatly u are drowned out by the more vocal and less helpful of ur peers.
People who simply don't believe (and speak out about it) are not necessarily "bashing". It's just a lack of belief. It seems like you can deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with you. (Most atheists have learned to deal with that quite well, because atheists are a decided minority.) Also - unfortunately the reasonable believers (of whatever stripe - Christian, Muslim, Jewish,etc.) are drowned out by the more vocal and extreme of their particular faith. That's how the world works, they who make the most noise unfortunately get the most attention and notoriety.
As for your moral,
1) every smart person is an atheist.(if not ur dumb)
2) if ur not one then it means u are at a lower level in ur journey (dont worry tho ull get there eventually)
3) Gods a fairy tale cuz bad things happen.
4) if u dont debate me then ur living a lie and have no basis for ur belief.
Point #1 is not true, and I don't think most atheists would say it isn't true. I'm an unbeliever, and I have smart friends and close family members whose belief system is near the center of their lives. However if believers start to use nonsense or non-sequitors in their discussion, such things will be called out.
Point #2 is not true. Atheism / unbelief definitely isn't for everybody. Life isn't a journey where everyone ends up with what one side or another thinks is the "logical" stance. Point #2 is no more true than the notion that every atheist turns into a believer while in a foxhole or on their deathbed.
Point #3 is an oversimplification. But seriously a major reason for reasonable doubt about any deity's existence is the existence of gross evil and suffering in this world.
Point #4 - nobody is required to defend their belief / disbelief if they are not so inclined. However if somebody makes gross generalizations about those on the other side of the fence (i.e. - "all believers are delusional" or "all unbelievers have no reason to be moral"), then the generalizer should be called out on it. -
10
Yesterday's WT "Study"
by piztjw injust a few observations about the material in yesterday's wt "study".. the wt informed people this week that as long as there is no clearly stated law from god we still cannot observe standards that are common in our area or that we were raised with, if we are christians.
the reason they gave?
as imperfect humans we don't have the ability to determine what is right or wrong.
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Gopher
the prospect of the possibility of life someday if you pass the final test that God unleashes
Gee, that sounds wonderful. No wonder they're the happiest people on earth. Gee, I miss having such vague possibilities (carrots) held out in return for sacrificing my time and resources to a multi-million dollar publishing and real-estate holding corporation.
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4
When and what book did the Great Crowd go from heaven to earth.
by Crazyguy ini think in the finish mystery rutherford (actually franz) still wrote the great crowd was in heaven.
so when and what books did the switch take place and the great crowd become on earth???
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Gopher
The official announcement of this change in doctrine came at the Watchtower convention in Washington DC, May 30 to June 3, 1935.
During Rutherford's "Great Multitude" talk before 20,000 attendees, he asked those of the "Jehonadab class" (the secondary earthly class) to stand. Then he made his dramatic announcement (because he loved drama) ... "Behold! The Great Multitude!"
Before this speech, they had started teaching about an earthly class (because the 144,000 number of their heavenly class was obviously getting to be too small for the number of JW's who were coming in). So in this talk, JF Rutherford identified the earthly class and the great multitude as being the same.
The WTS later changed the name of the "great multitude" to the "great crowd". Here's the Watchtower's spin on those events: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001363
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10
Yesterday's WT "Study"
by piztjw injust a few observations about the material in yesterday's wt "study".. the wt informed people this week that as long as there is no clearly stated law from god we still cannot observe standards that are common in our area or that we were raised with, if we are christians.
the reason they gave?
as imperfect humans we don't have the ability to determine what is right or wrong.
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Gopher
: Gopher, you know that Hebrews 5:14 is speaking only the the annointed....easily then converted to faithful and discreet slave....easily converted to the governing body...evidently.
Evidently, dear Watson! -
167
this site sucks! its just a buncha athiest on soap boxes.
by crossquestions6995 inthis site is not a healthy forum for discussion or healing.
its an arena for jaded athiests to bash anything christian or god related.
yes, i know the jw's lied to us about god and the truth.
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Gopher
Many non-believers (here and elsewhere) know as much or more about the [holy book] as believers do. It's often been said that the best way to create an atheist is to have someone read [insert name of favorite holy book].
It's not that we "parade our ignorance about the [holy book's] historical accuracy"... we are well aware of claims made and arguments in favor of that proposition. However there are very well thought-out reasons why we reject such claims or do not understand them to lead to the conclusion that the [insert holy book name here] originated with a deity who is telling us the whole truth. There are very good arguments on the side of the proposition that holy books are the writings of ancient priests and writers who sought to propagate their particular brand of religion. -
10
Yesterday's WT "Study"
by piztjw injust a few observations about the material in yesterday's wt "study".. the wt informed people this week that as long as there is no clearly stated law from god we still cannot observe standards that are common in our area or that we were raised with, if we are christians.
the reason they gave?
as imperfect humans we don't have the ability to determine what is right or wrong.
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Gopher
So the Watchtower said in so many words: "As IMPERFECT humans we don't have the ability to determine what is right or wrong."
The book they claim to believe 100% says "But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Hebrews 5:14)
So, which one is right? Or is there some subtle difference between "determine" and "distinguish" around which I cannot wrap my evil apostate mind?
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27
What Are The Expectations...Now??
by Cold Steel inthe society has been teaching that you-know-what is right around the corner for so long that it's lost all credibility.
what are the expecations like now?
do people still expect it to happen very soon, or are more people planning on things like higher education?
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Gopher
Lengthy apologetics for another religion are not likely to meet with much empathy here. Speaking for myself, I was preached to by people with 'wacko' views for way too long, and am tired of hearing any arguments for any religion. To me it is all organized superstition.
However, if you wish to talk about how groups like JW's build up false expectations so that they can increase their reach and influence, this forum will gladly join in. (BTW to answer your question about whose idea 1975 was, it was primarily from Fred Franz, who was VP of the WT Society from 1942 until the late 1970's. Franz was the WT Society's chief doctrinnaire all through that time and also while he was the Society's president (through about 1993 if I remember correctly).
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27
What Are The Expectations...Now??
by Cold Steel inthe society has been teaching that you-know-what is right around the corner for so long that it's lost all credibility.
what are the expecations like now?
do people still expect it to happen very soon, or are more people planning on things like higher education?
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Gopher
Cantleave,
You misspelled Mormon.
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13
Getting Married next year
by blablabluh inhi all, so i am getting married next year and just looking for some advice.. i left the jw's about 10 years ago now and i am marrying a non jw (who is also a scientist) next year.
my family are all still active and my brother has even agreed to be my best man.
there hasn't really been many issues apart from my mum taking it upon herself to tell everyone early that they do not do toasts.
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Gopher
You might also mention that wedding rings themselves have roots in ancient paganism. Here is a page apparently written by a JW that confesses that this is true but says that it really doesn't matter: http://www.engagementringshistory.com/wedding-ring-history/pagan-wedding-ring/
Also calendars themselves have names of pagan Gods embedded in them. January is named after the Janus, the god of beginnings. June is named after Juno, queen of the gods. So if JW's can't use things with a pagan origin, they should not use a calendar to schedule weddings, conventions and the like.
The piñata has a pagan origin, and yet the WTS has written that its pagan origin doesn't matter and its usage is a conscience matter for JW's. Here's what the Awake magazine said about them: "However, if it is very obvious that a custom has no current false religious ties (significance) and involves no violation of Bible principles, each Christian must make a personal decision as to whether he will follow such a custom." - September 22, 2003 AWAKE! magazine, pages 22-24.
Is a toast any less pagan than wedding rings, calendars and piñatas? I doubt it. Should it matter to a JW? I doubt it. (But I know some JW's tend to invent rules or cast something in a harsher light than is necesary.)