Posts by Gopher

5

How far should we let our love go?

by bigboi in

jw
friends

jesus said in john 13:35 that "by this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.

" how far should we let this mindset affect our dealings with people no mattter who they are or what they do?

you're honest opinions please.

Gopher

Bigboi, this is a very thought-provoking topic!

Several scriptures came to mind (you know, that old JW training kicks in every so often). Paul wrote "As far as it DEPENDS on you, be peaceable with all men." So when you said "no matter what they do", sometimes no amount of love can possibly change the situation for the better. (I don't know if you had a specific example in mind.)

Expanding on Simon's quote of Jesus, Jesus said to love our enemies, even to pray for them! Our love must be perfect like that of our heavenly Father's. Easier said than done, but we must try!

1 Corinthians 13:8 -- "Love NEVER fails." So it's always worth a try. Of course, it must be balanced by understanding and discernment. It doesn't mean we must bend to every whim or imposition people make, but instead lovingly consider what may be best for the person in a given situation. Even Jehovah says "no" a lot. He doesn't treat us like spoiled kids!

So I guess the answer boils down to two words...Copy Jesus.

Gopher

Edited by - Gopher on 23 March 2001 4:16:21

5

Should I pioneer?

by TheApostleAK in

jw
friends

i'm an unbaptised publisher at the moment and next month i'm thinking of doing the amount of hours that a pioneer does.

do you lot reckon it would be worthwhile for me to do it?

or should it stick with the usual 5 hours a month?

Gopher

Hello. Is it worthwhile? It depends on what you're in it for. Your first sentence has me a little concerned, where you mention you want to "do the hours". Going for "hours" and other statistics eventually becomes tedious, believe me.

I remember what one long-time pioneer told me: "Concentrate on the people. Then the hours will come naturally."

Do you have a burning desire to serve fellow humans? Do you fully believe this ministry is the way to do so? You've gotta be sure!

If you can be sure of those things, then maybe you'll enjoy this avenue of the service. Let us know!

Gopher

12

Do they REALLY believe in Armaggeddon?

by Mr Angry in

jw
friends

do they really believe in armaggeddon?.

i thought i would kick of my prescence here by starting a thread!.

do the governing body really believe that armaggeddon is just around the corner?.

Gopher

Hi Rick, welcome to the board! And may all your anger be "righteous", Mr. Angry!

The WTS has really painted themselves into a corner with constant date-setting. Since last year's re-organization, maybe there's been a bit of fresh blood in the writing department. But they're still stuck with the same dilemma.

I believe they will de-emphasize dates. Of course, that's just a guess. But, if they are reasonable, they WILL just let all that date-setting slide into the past and wash their hands of it!

But still, how to maintain control and motivate the flock? HMMMMM....You mentioned the carrot/stick analogy. I had thought of that too. I believe the "carrot" is the hope of paradise, now to come at some vague time in the "near future". The stick would be the threat of discipline now (you'd better "toe the line", or else...) and the constant reminder that our loving God will bring a bloody Armageddon later.

I believe they honestly think Armageddon is coming. They just don't know if it's really the season. They will continue to point to wars, earthquakes, famine in their proclamation that "this IS the season" for God to act. But, like the rest of us, they really don't know for sure.

Gopher

6

thinker's thoughts on the Bible...

by thinker in

thomas jefferson said of jesus's teachings:.

"they have been still more disfigured by the corruptions of schismatizing followers, who have found an interest in sophisticating and perverting the simple doctrines he taught, by engrafting on them the mysticisms of a grecian sophist, frittering them into subtleties, and obscuring them with jargon, until they have caused good men to reject the whole in disgust, and to view jesus himself as an impostor.

" (from jefferson's syllabus of an estimate of the.

Gopher

Thinker,

Thanks for "boiling it down" to something so simple and motivating! I have just recently come to the board after having been "out" for one year, and have been through the mill.

Anyways, I've needed something to fill the "void" that opened up when I left. The answer seems to be: consider Jesus, and follow him. You don't need an organization "prodding" you to do that, hopefully!

Of the Sermon on the Mount, the Society literature often quotes Mohandas Gandhi when he spoke to a representative of the British government. He said, "When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved not only the problems of our two countries, but also those of the whole world." (However, he also said "I love Jesus Christ. I do not love Christians", or something to that effect.)

Gopher

13

Are they looking for "Rice Christians"?

by Gopher in

jw
friends

i'm trying to get a clear "take" on this:.

the wts has often implied that their form of missionary work, concentrating on "preaching and teaching", is superior to that of christendom's.

christendom often starts out by bringing food supplies, hospitals and the like, supposedly "enticing" the natives with material goodies.

Gopher

Thanks for the good "takes": Achristian, Ozzie, Jan and Tina.

Trevor--"Club maintenance"? Too funny. So now we have you to blame for this "fake" charity work worldwide? Repent, ye!

LDH--They'll probably give out leftovers from the Bethel cafeteria to anyone who'll also take either a tract or a book published prior to 1986. [8>]

Gopher

26

memorial: how do you feel?

by unanswered in

jw
friends

this question is mostly for those of you who still believe in the bible to some extent.

my mother-in-law called the other day to see if rileygurl and i were going to the memorial this year.

we told her that we wouldn't be attending.

Gopher

Mike, way to go!

LDH: After I thought about it, it seems like you nailed it! After all, weren't the "Greek Scriptures" (a.k.a. New Testament) only written for the anointed ones? That's where it says, in the Corinthians, that the anointed ones are to observe the Memorial until the Lord's return. So, since those scriptures were not written for us un-anointed, maybe it's okay to feel un-invited.

As you know, this Memorial service is by far the biggest draw that the Society has. They're not about to give it up!

BTW, didn't it always seem like about one half of the talk was about why 99.9% of those in the audience should NOT partake? A lot of time for a little info, methinks.

Gopher (passing on the whole Memorial, not passing the emblems)

Edited by - Gopher on 21 March 2001 23:41:43

15

A different thought re "flickering light&q...

by comment in

jw
friends

does it seem plausible to you that some of the society's apparent flip-flops on doctrine are simply errors by the writing department?.

for instance, take the question of whether the inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah will be resurrected.

around 1989, the revised edition of you can live forever in paradise said no, the insight book said something else and the revelation climax book said something else.

Gopher

LDH,

But of course those who write the materials at headquarters can read ANYTHING THEY WANT. (That's their job, you know!) And then they can pick and choose little slices of information here and there, digest it, and present it back to us as quotes in the Awake! magazine or whatever.

So, if you'd just stick to reading those magazines, you'd eventually get enough "secular" material in there to be satisfied, right?? [8>]

Gopher, who prefers to digest his own food (thank you very much)

26

memorial: how do you feel?

by unanswered in

jw
friends

this question is mostly for those of you who still believe in the bible to some extent.

my mother-in-law called the other day to see if rileygurl and i were going to the memorial this year.

we told her that we wouldn't be attending.

Gopher

To "Achristian", re: your post on the bottom of the 1st page of this thread.

Seems to me you were a little hard on "QWERTY". Both he and CornerStone are going, though perhaps they would rather not. I hope God blesses them both in their choices as they struggle to find the best way to "get out from under" a heavy-handed organization.

I don't think citing "Luke 9" and "Revelation 21" was particularly helpful, or Christian. All QWERTY did was a little "out loud thinking" about what's probably a fantasy, i.e., drinking the emblems at home after the Memorial.

QWERTY and others need SUPPORT! Not to be shot down!

Please play nice on here! That's what we're here for.

(If QWERTY were actually ashamed of Jesus and a coward, I don't think he'd be out here pouring out his heart!)

Gopher

15

A different thought re "flickering light&q...

by comment in

jw
friends

does it seem plausible to you that some of the society's apparent flip-flops on doctrine are simply errors by the writing department?.

for instance, take the question of whether the inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah will be resurrected.

around 1989, the revised edition of you can live forever in paradise said no, the insight book said something else and the revelation climax book said something else.

Gopher

Hey Oz (or is that too informal),

I had heard the scripture (I believe from James 5) quoted often, "Go on confessing your sins to one another." And Paul wrote, "Now that we are members belonging to one another, speak the truth each one of you with his neighbor."

So we are told to always 'fess up, down to the last detail!

It would be nice if the W/T set even a small precedent in confession. Actually if they don't, I believe they will eventually lose out in the eyes of many more of their current adherents.

Gopher, who suddenly feels he's from the "Show-me" state

15

A different thought re "flickering light&q...

by comment in

jw
friends

does it seem plausible to you that some of the society's apparent flip-flops on doctrine are simply errors by the writing department?.

for instance, take the question of whether the inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah will be resurrected.

around 1989, the revised edition of you can live forever in paradise said no, the insight book said something else and the revelation climax book said something else.

Gopher

Hey Ozzie,

Of course it wasn't a mistake on the Society's part.

It's more like: "Some friends were overzealous in their hope that the first understanding was correct."

Or: "Some readers' consciences had bound them to a certain understanding previously held. But it would be more realistic if you could be flexible enough to now believe $%^& (whatever)."

Gopher (Of the too timid to believe what they said either time class)