i seriously ask this question in light of some ridiculous experiences i have had in recent times.
a while back,a freind of mine purchased a new home.
a housewarming party was planned for her.
Nytelcom, you asked:
Are you telling me to be a free thinker I have to leave the org??
Are you telling us the "org" tolerates free thinkers? Since when?
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.
i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.
) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.
Wiz, you said:
And where does the WTBS judge these people as evil? DF is simply a disciplinary action. It does not say they are evil. You're assuming that.
No, this is not an assumption. The scriptures the JW's use to support their form of shunning say so. "You must clear out what is BAD from your midst." And 1 Corinthians 5:13 "Remove the WICKED man from among yourselves."
Don't BAD and WICKED = EVIL?
Further testifying to this, at my JC meeting, one elder called me "EVIL". Evidently at least one of the two others agreed, for they reached at least a 2-1 majority to kick me to the curb, even though I didn't want to leave (at least not then).
So let's call DF'ing what it is: the congregation's judgment that a person is EVIL!
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.
i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.
) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.
Freeman,
Welcome to the board! You sure came in with a bang! I hope you'll take the opportunity to share more of your thoughts as time goes.....And thanks for the great exposition on why the way JW's practice shunning is non-scriptural. They'll never admit it, but it's all about "fear" and "control", nothing to do with "love" and "righteousness" or winning back sinners for God.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
i seriously ask this question in light of some ridiculous experiences i have had in recent times.
a while back,a freind of mine purchased a new home.
a housewarming party was planned for her.
I grew up in a large metropolitan area, so big it couldn't all fit into one circuit assembly. But still, we had the counsel (I remember it as if it were yesterday)... no association after work hours with worldly (non-JW) people. We weren't to waste our time that way. Too much studying, ministry, time with one's family, or whatever had to be done....
We heard endless stories about how "immoral relations" with some worldly associations began through after-hours association.
You talked about the idea of 'beating the crap out of an elder' if they narc'd on you. I never learned that at the Kingdom Hall! Such an action (if carried out) would surely be dealt with because it involves the IMAGE of the congregation. And IMAGE is what it's all about isn't it? Telcom, you have to remember to put the organization ahead of yourself, at all times, no matter what principles are involved!
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
i believe i have set the wheels in motion for what i believe will lead to my disfellowshiping.
i have been inactive since 1987 and still getting along with the witnesses (invited to gatherings etc.
) but something came up that finally push my buttons just enough to make me explode.
I'm nodding my head, agreeing with GSARK.
Shunning is extremely unloving. When people breezed by me at the convention last year, did they care to know if justice was served in my case? Did they know why they were even shunning me?
They were doing it out of FEAR. FEAR that if they associate with a shunned one, they too will become a 'shunned one'. Rules are rules, don't you know!
1 John 4:18: "There is no fear in love, perfect love throws fear outside because fear exercises a restraint. He that is under fear has not been made perfect in love."
The whole structure of JW's is based on fear, including their shunning practice. They 'fear' their organization, they even 'fear' each other...anyone could be an informant.
True Christianity would motivate one through love. Love is pure, has no morbid fear in it.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
i know that this has been done before, but i am new to the board and i would like to get an idea of where everyone is located.
as an aside .... plesantries or animosities, moderators or no, i am grateful to have this board.
bobsgirl
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
the thread about people leaving has made me think of the 7 years i have been on the net and participated in various witness and ex-witness e-mail groups or discussion boards.. in these years i have seen many a person, which for various reasons come and go from such forums.
there are of course as many opinions as there are people and in such diverse groups there will always be debates about every conceivable subject there is.
people who come out of the watchtower society seems as a group particularly ill equipped to deal with disagreements and strong debates but of course some more than others.
Norm,
Thanks for the timely essay. Posts like this lend needed balance and stability to the board. Your perspective is one everybody would do well to consider!
Tina -- very well done! Nice comparison and contrast between conformity and diversity. (A thought-provoking addition to this thread.)
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
gathering that there seems to be a mix of active jw's, inactive jw's, ex-jw's, atheists etc.
here, i am wandering on your thoughts on the holidays with more focus on the more religious based holidays like christmas & easter.. i'd like to know if you celebrate them like the mainstream of society or if you still have your reservations about them based on what you learned as part of the wt.
i myself have been very turned off by the holidays in recent years - not because of the wt though- but for my own personal reasons.
Like Moxy, I never celebrated holidays as a child, and so don't have any real emotional connection to them. However, if invited by my non-JW relatives to come and associate with them on Thanksgiving (or whatever) day, I will gladly do so. Further, if I re-marry someday and my wife's family chooses to celebrate, I won't stand in their way. I'll share to some extent, to what extent --- will cross that bridge when it comes.
As far as other holidays, it seems like the WT Society may be trying to build an artificial wall between JW's and the outside world. Like ANY holiday is a bad one. Instead of following the man-made rules of the JW's, I'll go for what Paul wrote in Romans 14:5, "One man judges one day as above another, another man judges one day as all others; let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
from the ap newswire north fort myers, fla. -- a mother allegedly shot dead her 6-year-old son sunday but a shotgun blast intended for his 16-year-old brother was absorbed by the teen-ager's bible, police said.. leslie ann wallace, 39, was later shot by sheriff's deputies and hospitalized in critical condition.. authorities said wallace shot her son james wallace at home, then drove to her family's church where she fired her shotgun at 16-year-old kenneth wallace as he stood outside.. the blast, fired at close range, struck his bible and the overcoat he was carrying.
kenneth wallace's arm had minor scratches.. ``the bible certainly saved his life,'' said lee county sheriff's deputy larry king.
``had his bible not been in the way he would have sustained the brunt of the blast and very well could have died from that type of injury.''.
From the AP newswire
NORTH FORT MYERS, Fla. -- A mother allegedly shot dead her 6-year-old son Sunday but a shotgun blast intended for his 16-year-old brother was absorbed by the teen-ager's Bible, police said.Leslie Ann Wallace, 39, was later shot by sheriff's deputies and hospitalized in critical condition.
Authorities said Wallace shot her son James Wallace at home, then drove to her family's church where she fired her shotgun at 16-year-old Kenneth Wallace as he stood outside.
The blast, fired at close range, struck his Bible and the overcoat he was carrying. Kenneth Wallace's arm had minor scratches.
``The Bible certainly saved his life,'' said Lee County Sheriff's Deputy Larry King. ``Had his Bible not been in the way he would have sustained the brunt of the blast and very well could have died from that type of injury.''
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
i've been reading this forum page for about a year.
at first i thought it was a meeting place for practicing jw's but after reading many posts found that most people here have been hurt or don't see things eye to eye with the wt org.
i am not a jw but i have been associating with them for about 3 yrs.
Re: Peacepipe, Prisca, Tina and Seven006
I'm glad we have an OPEN forum here, where everybody has FREEDOM to make their comments, revealing what's in their hearts. ("Out of the heart's abundance, the poster posts" -- Hezekiah 13:4)
Peacepipe clearly stated in her first post that she had been lurking here for about a year. If that is the case, clearly she has seen its ups and downs, and the freedom of expression (good, bad, and insipid) that rules here.
I'm glad Prisca posted what she did, because it opened up a whole torrent of positive comment about this board! And since this is a marketplace of open ideas, I guess that marketplace involves knowing that there ARE other alternatives. Since Peacepipe finds her comfort here, I doubt she'll abandon us for H2O or for (oh my goodness) WOL.
Seven006, thanks for trying to be fair and open to different points of view. You just have to ask, if Prisca thinks this board is so bad, then why does she keep coming here? She's free to do so, of course. Some of her contributions have added good things to the dialogue. She just needs to come around to your understanding that this board is for ALL various points of view about the JW organization, and it won't always be pretty. If you don't feel like reading certain entries out here, there are plenty of other good things to read and contribute to out here.
Tina, almost left you out! Thanks for all your contributions to the board. You've been there since my day one, and for the most part you 'cut through the crap' and get right to the heart of an issue. That is so needed, even though not always understood (on first reading).
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
