a pivotal question for those who believe the bible.
jehovah's witnesses and many other religions believe jesus is the "seed" of the "woman" spoken of in genesis 3:15. in addition, the jehovah's witnesses believe this "woman" pictures the heavenly organization (angels) that produced jesus.
given that premise, i pose this question:.
Since becoming a Christian 7 years ago after 30 years as a JW.
What I have learned is that Gen 3:15 points to a future salvation that the "seed of the woman" one of Eve's decendants would in the future provide the one who will be the means of salvation.
I have not heard any other Christian group teach along similar lines as the JW one, that the "woman" is some heavenly organisation.
Can you point out any other Christian group that teaches the same thing as the JW's on this?
well, i know you all pretty well now after 9 months of being on board , so i feel o.k.
to approach this subject.
this subject is a pretty touchy one for most of us men, especially those of us that have been put under the " knife" , and got to the point where we did not want any more children.
I had a vasectomy 18 years ago.
Had it done one afternoon at a private clinic. All over in about 30 minutes. Never had any problems.
Cost me about £50 ($100) back then.
Incidently I was a JW and Min Servant at the time. I asked Elders about having it done, no problems they said.
Now I would not be allowed to be a Min Servant if it was known I had had it done.
a 14 year old can refuse a blood transfusion.
this is against the wishes of his parents.. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_jehovahs_witness_transfusion.html.
judge: 14-year-old jehovah's witness can refuse blood transfusionthe associated press.
In contrast to above case :
I COULDN'T LET SON DIE
HELEN ORRELL
[email protected]
08:00 - 08 November 2007
A Former Jehovah's Witness defied his family's beliefs to save his toddler's life.Andy Wright's son, Ethan, contracted a deadly bacteria and urgently needed a blood transfusion.
But the cleaning contractor from Bury Lane, Hatfield Peverel, said he did not think twice about approving the treatment despite being a Jehovah's Witness for 25 years.
Three-year-old Ethan fell ill on October 27 with a rare mycoplasma infection which caused his red blood count to dip well below normal levels.
Since then the toddler has had four blood transfusions at St John's Hospital and is now recovering.
But Mr Wright, a 39-year-old father of four, said although he immediately approved the procedure he feared his family's reaction.
He said: "I didn't question the doctor or ask him whether there was anything else but for a split second I did think 'is this right and what are my family going to think?
"I couldn't help it as I have been brought up as a Witness but when it came down to it Ethan was really ill.
"He was yellow and could hardly sit up but after about an hour into the transfusion you could see the colour coming back to his cheeks.
"My parents have been fine with it and they have been ringing every day to see how he is.
"I think they have accepted it was my choice although they wouldn't have chosen it for themselves.
"But I personally couldn't have sat there and watched the poor lad waste away and I think 99 per cent of people wouldn't say no if their son was that ill."
There are about 130,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in the UK.
The faith teaches blood is sacred and prohibits transfusions based on four Bible passages.
On Tuesday, a funeral service was held for Jehovah's Witness Emma Gough from Telford in Shropshire who died just hours after giving birth to twins and refusing a blood transfusion.
Mr Wright said: "I know they have their beliefs but sadly in that case it cost someone their life."
a 14 year old can refuse a blood transfusion.
this is against the wishes of his parents.. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_jehovahs_witness_transfusion.html.
judge: 14-year-old jehovah's witness can refuse blood transfusionthe associated press.
this may seem like a shameless plug for www.freeminds.org.
but it's not.. randy has been a source of significant information for me (and countless others) over the last decade(s), and very recently sent me (at his expense) some additional information about the wts.. now, one thing i must say is that randy and i do not share the same ideologies about religious perspectives.
but, ya know what?
Same here.
Freeminds was the first website I looked at back in 1997. It opened up my eyes to the Watchtower.
Ever since, when anyone has asked about information on JW's I always direct them to Freeminds as the first place to look.
Long may he continue.
cheers, good health to Randy.
i often wonder about the unwritten rule in kingdom halls that a witness should be in dress clothes and brothers cannot have beards (the beard rule i think is pretty much us-only though).
sure, they won't stop you from coming to a meeting in your work clothes and they might even treat you fine.
but, if you want to go anywhere in the congregation (i.e.
brothers cannot have beards (the beard rule I think is pretty much US-only though)
Nope. The beards were (an still is, I guess) an issue here in Norway as well. If you had a beard, or something other hairy stuff in your face, you were not to have any privileges. One new brother in my hall (really nice guy with adorable family, also new), had a moustache for a long time. One day he shaved it off. Two weeks later (or so it seemed) he was an MS.
I can't remember any dress rules, though.
Its the same here in Britain.
I remember seeing a brother in the Kingdom Hall being told by an Elder, that as long as he had a beard, he would not be allowed on the platform. Also that no one would be allowed to work with him on the field ministry. The guy only had a small goatee !!
Yet I had a mustache all the time I was a JW , no one ever told me to shave it off or even made a comment, even when I became a Min Servant.
We had the usual brothers had to wear suits rule. But we could wear whatever coloured shirt we liked. I never ever wore white shirts.
There was a rule about ties, they had to be plain and dark colours. Then a CO turned up who wore the most brightly coloured, patterned ties you can imagine. The Elders never said a word after he had been.
But I have learnt how things can be different in other congregations. Each one seems to make up its own rules on dress, depending on the attitude of the local Elders.
i had a chance to be with a group of jw's yesterday.
my wife thinks she overheard a couple of them talking about an announcement from the platform about avoiding the "golden compass" movie coming out.
i know that other religious groups have spoken out against this film, but i would not have expected the witnesses to announce that formally.
From what I've read the film doesn't carry the "anti-religious" content as much, or even at all, as the books do.
I saw an interview with Pullman and he said what he was trying to do in the books was show 1) What happens when "religion" becomes a power to control others 2) That people are afraid of there being a spiritual side to life. Whether its a "God" or some other means.
imho....it all needs to go.
its influencing everything in this world every and anywhere.
from the saudies, to the people in irag, iran and anywhere else our sons will need to be sent.. our current president claims he is influenced along with the former prime minister of england by religious beliefs.. there is the huge evangelical influence that got bush and the mess he made who put them in to begin with.. we have the jw's causing absolute havic in anyone's lives connected with this stupidity.. it goes on and on and on.
Quite often the Pastor of the Pentecostal church I attend has said that "organised religion" has been the worse thing for the Christian faith.
ex witness of 20 years here.
by the grace of god (or something anyway) i managed to get out.
i visited this forum about 5 years ago and noticed the u.n. issue.
Welcome to the forum Nothing Man.
Nice to see another UK member on the forum.
what disturbs me the most is not that there are pedophiles in the congregations of jw's because.
there are pedophiles in all religions, it is the fact that the wtbts has always pointed an accusing.
finger at the churches of christendom for not following the bible, thus not being christain.
Firstly we acknowledge such things of course are not confined to the JW's.
We know that child abuse goes on within other religions also.
But I think what shocks most people is that the JW's had an actual policy of keeping such things quiet. The number of cases where Elders etc, KNEW about a paedophile in their congregation, even for many years.
Yet never informed the congregation, never mind the police.
They were also locked into this "two witness" rule.
As bad as they are locked into the blood doctrine.
Have you ever tried to explain the "two witness" rule to someone, why the JW's don't take action.
People just cannot get their head round it.
Elders really do not know how to deal with the situation. They rely on what they have been told by the organisation on how to handle such cases.
They have been caught up in their own image. That they have for years projected themselves as the "only clean, moral, people" that nothing immoral goes on within their organisation.
Unlike the other religions they point a finger at. Remember last year with the tract they distributed. It had a picture of a priest, with the comment of how certain religions have such things happening within them.
But not within "Jehovahs organisation". Hypoctitical or what?
The WT were quick to point to the Catholic Church in America having to pay out over abuse cases by preists.
Yet when the WT had to pay out over similar cases they had gagging orders issued on the people concerning, to try and keep it quiet.
But of course Barbra Anderson found a way round it.
For years the Watchtower has been happily going along on its way.
Now its being exposed as no different in its morals than any of the other religions it pointed a finger at. Since I left many, JW's and ex-JW's, have told me some of the things that went on in their congregations.
But the average JW knows nothing of such things because everything is kept from them. Elders make sure things are kept from congregation members. To all intents the congregation is clean and no problems.
Plus of course they blame the "evil people" on the outside for telling untruths etc, when they are exposed.
Whatever is happening to the Watchtower.
I'm sure its got certain ones worried.
Time is their great enemy.
Soon it will be only 6 years to 2014.
One hundred years since 1914 when they say Christ took up Kingdom power etc.
Did they expect to be here this long?
This is why they have to keep "tweaking" their teachings, as with the "generation" teaching and recently the "heavenly class" teaching.
They have a "sell by date" and on some of them its running out.
