Posts by Chalam

109

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures...

by Joliette in

if i'm not mistaken, werent the committee of brothers who translated this bible: nathan knorr, albert scheoder, george gangas, fredrick franz.

wasnt fredrick franz the only scholarly person (or somewhat scholarly) person who was 'somewhat qualified' to translate any type of biblical greek, hebrew, etc?.

Chalam

Thanks MadJW.

Surely, any bible claiming to be the most accurate (as the NWT claims) should have breath or wind in Genesis 1:2, not "active force".

Blessings,

Stephen

16

Matthew 10:28

by Ding in

in view of their teaching that there is no separate soul apart from the body, how does the wt interpret matthew 10:28: "do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell.".

i'm not asking about the hell issue here.. i'm wondering in wt doctrine how it's possible someone to kill the body but not the soul..

Romans 8:10 (New International Version)

10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Luke 20:38 (New International Version)

38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.

John 11:25-26 (New International Version)

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Philippians 1:21 (New International Version)

21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (New International Version)

6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

James 2:26 (New International Version)

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Blessings,

Stephen

109

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures...

by Joliette in

if i'm not mistaken, werent the committee of brothers who translated this bible: nathan knorr, albert scheoder, george gangas, fredrick franz.

wasnt fredrick franz the only scholarly person (or somewhat scholarly) person who was 'somewhat qualified' to translate any type of biblical greek, hebrew, etc?.

Chalam

Sab- I am an incredibly Critical Thinker- and have studies translations for well over 30 years- so I KNOW what I'm talking about

Looks like I am in the right place then :)

Can you tell me where the NWT gets the words "active" and "force" from? I can't see either in the Hebrew? http://biblos.com/genesis/1-2.htm

Blessings,

Stephen

16

new beginnings

by AMAN in

hi everyone this is my first time to do any like send an email to strangers but from reading a lot of your comments i feel.

i can talk heres my history i joined the jws in the early 80s i was with them for about 4 yrs i was in centeral in dublin.

i left at about the time of john may and martin merryman and others although i couldnt fully accept thier rules when the split came it was easy for me to leave and now back to the present !

Chalam

Welcome AMAN!

Blessings,

Stephen

14

It's tough learning the truth

by Cook My Socks UK in

jw
friends

this just came to me(after a few jd's).. i need another study!

i was raised a jw as yound child and so have known nothing else(bar a few christmas and birthdays), what i read makes sense but doesn't make sense at the same time.

i find it easy to dismiss what i read here but inside know it's not being true to myself.

Chalam

One person you need to study with

John 14:26 (New International Version)

26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 15:26 (New International Version)

26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

Ask Him to fulfil these promises and start your study here John 1 :)

Blessings,

Stephen

19

how many times is 144,000 mentioned in the bible

by bigmac in

jw
friends

can someone help me with this: how many times & where is the 144,000 referred to in the bible?.

Chalam

the bride of christ is comprised of 144,000 virgin men

The bride of Christ is the church i.e. all those who believe.

Ephesians 5:22-33 (New International Version)

22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Blessings,

Stephen

19

how many times is 144,000 mentioned in the bible

by bigmac in

jw
friends

can someone help me with this: how many times & where is the 144,000 referred to in the bible?.

Chalam

AGuest is correct.

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=144&x=0&y=0

Bigmac, you can search the bible quickly here http://www.biblegateway.com/

Here's the notes from the ESV Study Bible regarding the 144, 000

Rev. 7:1–17 Interlude: The Sealing of God's International Israel. There are three interludes (vv. 1–17; 10:1–11:14; 20:1–6) explaining the place of the saints in the events of Revelation. (As with the Egyptian plagues, the seals, trumpets, and bowls relate only to sinners.) Literal and symbolic approaches differ sharply in interpreting the vision of the “144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel” (7:4) and its relation to the next vision of an innumerable multitude “from every nation” (v. 9). Many understand this to be a reference to ethnic (or biological) Israel, and they would view the 144,000 as a symbolic or actual number of Jewish believers brought to faith immediately after Jesus returns and removes the church from the earth before (or during) a seven-year tribulation (this is a “pretribulation rapture” view). However, another common approach understands “Israel” as a reference to the church, the new covenant people of God, and in this view the visions of the 144,000 and of the international multitude are complementary perspectives on the church, believers from every nation including ethnic Israel. They are protected from the Lamb's wrath as his own flock (v. 17) but are exposed to persecution by evil enemies. The 144,000 reappear in 14:1–4, and their description there has a bearing on the interpretation here.

Rev. 7:1–3 The sixth seal (6:12–17) showed an earthquake and a wind that shook the stars from the sky. God's cringing enemies asked, “Who can stand?” (6:17). The answer is, those “sealed” (7:4) with the seal of the living God (cf. Ezek. 9:4–6). Therefore John sees four angels charged to hold back those winds of judgment until all of God's servants have received his seal. “The seal of the living God” evokes a picture of a royal signet ring by which kings authenticated documents or marked ownership of an item (see note on John 6:27). This seal is the name of the Lamb and of God (Rev. 14:1), a gift promised to all who conquer by faith (3:12). It is antithetical to the mark of the beast (13:16) and symbolizes God's ownership and protection of his people. Circumcision functioned as such a seal under the old covenant (Rom. 4:11), and God's Holy Spirit seals God's people as his property under the new (Eph. 1:13–14).foreheads. Cf. Ezek. 9:4–6 for a similar instance of sealing God's people against outpoured judgment.

Rev. 7:4–8 The selection and order of the 12 tribes suggest that the 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel have symbolic significance, representing the church (however, see note on vv. 1–17 for an alternative view). These are not Jacob's sons, for Dan is omitted and Manasseh included. They are not the tribes that inherited land in Canaan, for Dan is omitted, Levi (the priestly tribe) is included, and Joseph is listed instead of his son Ephraim. Judah, the tribe of the Messiah (5:5), appears first rather than Reuben, the firstborn. When 7:5–8 is compared with the list of Jacob's sons in Gen. 35:22–26, the promotion of tribes descended from concubines Bilhah and Zilpah (Gad, Asher, Naphtali) over the sons of Leah and Rachel suggests that those once excluded from privilege are now included. The number 12,000reappears in the dimensions of the new Jerusalem (Rev. 21:16). Indeed, the number 144,000 (12 x 12 x 1,000) suggests symbolism here, but that does not necessarily decide the question of whether “Israel” is also a symbol for the church, or is intended to refer to literal, ethnic Israel.

Rev. 7:9 As in 5:4–5, where John first heard an OT title (the Lion of Judah) and then saw its NT fulfillment (the Lamb slain), so here John hears (7:4) the names of the sealed sons of Israel and then sees the NT fulfillment: a countless multitudefrom every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages (cf. 5:9), whom God has rescued from wrath through the blood of the Lamb (7:14). They stand before the throne and before the Lamb in heaven, worshiping their Savior. They wear the white robes of victorious martyrs (6:11; see note on 2:17). Many who hold to a pretribulation “rapture” of the church think that the two groups of 7:1–8 and 7:9–17 are different (converted Jewish people still suffering on earth invv. 1–8, but the raptured church rejoicing in heaven in vv. 9–17). Others think these are Gentiles converted during the tribulation through the witness of the 144,000 Jewish believers who remain on earth (v. 4). Those who do not hold to a pretribulation rapture usually see vv. 1–8 and vv. 9–17 as the same group, with their suffering in vv. 1–8 turned to joy and reward in vv. 9–17.

Rev. 7:10–12 When the multitude extols God and the Lamb for salvation, angels and living creatures fall down and break out in a sevenfold doxology, almost replicating the sevenfold praise of the Lamb (5:12).

Rev. 7:13–14 An elder identifies the multitude as the ones coming out of the great tribulation. Some understand the definite article (Gk. he, “the”) to refer to one great final period of suffering, but others take this to represent the sufferings of the church throughout all history. The source of their robes' whiteness is the blood of the Lamb(cf. Ps. 51:7). John will later hear that “our brothers” have conquered their accuser by the blood of the Lamb and their testimony (Rev. 12:11).

Rev. 14:1 Mount Zion. Fulfilling Ps. 2:6, the Lamb stands in glory on God's holy hill in heaven (cf. Heb. 12:22), accompanied by his army. The sound of their harps and voices descends from heaven like a waterfall's thundering cascades as they sing “before the throne, the four living creatures,” and “the elders” (Rev. 4:2–8; 7:9–12). The seal on their foreheads (see note on 13:16–17) is the name of the Lamb and of his Father—a token of possession and protection by God, promised to every conqueror in the spiritual war (3:12). Most dispensationalists see these 144,000as the same group mentioned in 7:4: Jewish believers who have trusted in Christ as their Messiah during the great tribulation.

Rev. 14:1–15:8 The vision sequence leading to the seven last plagues (which will be described as “bowls” of God's wrath, 16:1–21) opens and closes with scenes of a heavenly choir singing praise to God (14:1–5; 15:2–4). Between these anthems John sees three angels who announce impending judgment (14:6–13) and three who order and execute harvests (14:15–20). At the center, between the three announcing angels and the three harvesting angels, John sees a seventh figure, one like a son of man, gathering his grain from the earth (14:14). Despite the beast's cruel persecution (ch. 13), these visions (like those inchs. 7 and 10–11) provide reassurance that God and the Lamb rule, and that martyrs already celebrate victory.

Rev. 14:1–5 The Lamb and His Sealed Victors. John's second vision of the 144,000 (cf. 7:1–8) interprets the seal they had received and the protection it provided.

Rev. 14:2 The singers with their harps will reappear beside the sea of glass (15:2–4; see 4:6); their song indicates that they are redeemed.

Rev. 14:3 The new song celebrates God's triumph over sin through the Lamb (5:9; 15:3), just as the Lord's prior victories were celebrated in new songs (Ps. 96:1; 98:1; 144:9). Their song belongs only to those who have experienced the Lamb's redemption (Ps. 107:1–3), into whose salvation angels “long to look” (1 Pet. 1:12). This is another indication that 144,000 should not be taken as a literal number; they represent those who have been redeemed (see notes on Rev. 7:1–17; 7:4–8).

Rev. 14:4–5 have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. The spiritual purity of those who bear the Lamb's name is symbolized by the sexual self-denial that consecrated Israel for the wars that God commanded (cf. Deut. 23:9–11; 1 Sam. 21:5). Although portrayed as celibate males, the 144,000 (Rev. 14:3) signify believers of both sexes who, dying in faith, are gathered as firstfruits for God, foreshadowing a greater harvest. in their mouth no lie was found. They resemble Jesus, theblameless servant of the Lord (cf. Isa. 53:9).

The core reason that the WT focus on the 144, 00 is to deceive JWs in thinking that the New Testament is for this small group rather than all Christians.

The WT make big of some other little mentioned things or characters in the bible for similar reasons. Consider these two, Armageddon and Michael.

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=armageddon&x=0&y=0

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=michael&version1=31&searchtype=all&spanbegin=34&spanend=73

Blessings,

Stephen

2

amazing video on spider behavior

by man in black in

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghae3tcnxqq.

Chalam

LOL!

169

Rich Man and Lazarus

by Ding in

i have never understood the watchtower's explanation of the rich man and lazarus story jesus told in luke 16. of course, they don't believe jesus is talking about what happens in an "afterlife" after people die.. but from the watchtower's point of view:.

1. who are the five brothers?.

2. why can't lazarus go witness to them?

Chalam

ASK me if you want the scriptures on that...

Thanks for offering but I have them right here.

Revelation 20:13-15 (New International Version)

13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Blessings,

Stephen

2

Watchtower Organizational Sheep's Clothing

by Ding in

we all have seen plenty of wts statements like this: "how grateful we should be that jehovah has provided us with a faithful and discreet slave class to provide us food at the proper time!".

suppose instead they had written it this way: "how grateful you should be that jehovah has put us in charge of you to tell you what to think and how to behave!".

someone once said, "the sheep's clothing of the false prophets is their vocabulary.".

Chalam

1 Timothy 4 (New International Version)

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

This is not exclusive to the WT but however, they are clearly amongst those described here. Interestingly, the WT forbade marriage before the 1925 "Armageddon".

Blessings,

Stephen