Gozz

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Posts by Gozz

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  53

  The Jehovah's Witnesses Reformation Movement

  by Kenneson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i made an interesting find last evening.

  i stumbled across a site purporting to be a jehovah's witness reform movement.

  while it sees value in jehovah's witnesses, its primary purpose is to reform the governing body.

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  Gozz

  Allow me to predict what would happen if this group with their signed petitions tried to pull a "95 thesis" like Martin Luther did against the Catholic Church. The WBTS/GB would make the "Diet of Worms" look like a boy scout picnic, by comparison.

  I predict that they would take that list, hunt everyone down, and disfellowship every one of them. There would be a total housecleaning amongst the various congregations. That petition list would just make their job easier, because they would know exactly who to pursue and take the necessary action. It is possible they might give them one warning first, and if they do not back off, then the will proceed with the Disfellowshipment.

  They simply must keep "Jehovah's Organization" clean, and this is rebellion and apostasy pure and simple!

  I just don't think they would be intimidated by a class action pressure tactic. They would be the ones that would be to blame, not Jehovah's inspired leadership. This is a "Theocracy" Dictatorship in the name of God, and the "collective will" simply does not count.

  Rod P.

  That would be a good thing! It'll all the more point to the vengeful nature of the JW religion leadership. And a good reason why those not in any position to be threatened should sign up on the petition. They've a target of 100, 200; it'll be interesting to see Brooklyn's reaction; the sooner they started a crackdown, the better.

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  53

  The Jehovah's Witnesses Reformation Movement

  by Kenneson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i made an interesting find last evening.

  i stumbled across a site purporting to be a jehovah's witness reform movement.

  while it sees value in jehovah's witnesses, its primary purpose is to reform the governing body.

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  Gozz

  Good site. Very good for proper JWs already thinking about the ills of the JW religion. And, as jeffcake wrote, would be extremely more useful to the regular JW simply questioning their beliefs. It appears that many of us forget too soon: it takes a quantum leap of sth greater than mustard-seed faith for a JW questioning his/her belief to read the everyday discussion topics on this site and not almost exit immediately. Is there a section here for "new" JWs already? Sites like www.freeminds.org and http://geocities.com/osarsif/ (down at this very time) are good for introductions to what's wrong with the JW religion; JWD 'll be better as they ease out of the JW mindset.

  Good site, that one; anything that gets a JW thinking; and nothing better than people who're on the inside.

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  36

  read a good book this summer season

  by franklin J in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  hope everyone one is having a great summer season...... has anyone read any good books lately...?.

  willy loman; are you out there,,,?.

  ps just a note to say that patty and i had dinner with willy loman and his wife when they came to new york; we had a wonderful time......and willy has some great news to announce and share with the forum...

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  Gozz

  Book - Berlin: The Downfall 1945

  Author - Anthony Beevor.

  Beevor 's good.

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  88

  Elder Condemned Me to Death

  by Grace in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been thinking about this because of another post where the question asks have any of us ever been blackmailed to stay in the watchtower organization.. no, i won't say i was blackmailed; however, after i wrote my note of disassociation, the congregation overseer wanted to visit me in my home with two other elders.

  i repeatedly said no, that i would not allow them to chastise me in my own home.

  therefore, all of my conversations were over the phone with the overseer.

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  Gozz

  Unbelievable arrongace!

  Before we went out for field service, it was usual to have a small meeting, like considering the daily text or some presentation or something; one unbaptized publisher (UP) complained, loudly, about people in the territory not listening; brother elder made a comment to the effect that he should be very happy for being on the road to salvation because of those other will be fuel "meat for Armageddon". Response? Loving brothers and sister giggled at the brilliance of the expression; only one other sister was disturbed enough not to go out for field servcie that day.

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  64

  The Loving Provision Of Disfellowshipping.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower, july 15, 1995:.

  disfellowshippinga loving provision?.

  "holy, holy, holy is jehovah god, the almighty.

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  Gozz

  tijkmo,

  is lying really a disfellowshipping offence? I know elders who lie like they breathe; heck, the WTS lies all the time. I don't know anyone disfellowshipped for lying.

  I routinely talk to DF people; how'll I know they're disfellowshipped when I'm never at the meetings??

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  33

  What did you do as a child (or adult) to survive boredom during meetings?

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  what did you do as a child (or adult) to survive boredom during meetings?.

  as a child i remember sitting behind a sister with a pink angora sweater.

  i would pull of a bit of the lint from it and tilt my head back and place it above my lips a bit.

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  Gozz

  As an adult: I'll usually have a spare of sth to read; I always sat at the back. I'd make a To Do list for the next day, and for the next week. I'll try to remember things I'd forgotten during the day... and then I'll read bible verses. Many fo the talks were simply numbing repetitions.

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  151

  The Star Spangled Banner

  by rebel8 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,.

  what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?.

  whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight;.

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  Gozz

  liibit, that's quite sad.

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  14

  Who is Ray Franz???

  by susu812 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i have no idea who ray franz is and i have seen many threads that talk baout him but my only access to a comp.

  is here at work and i can't really search for info too much--can someone help explain who he is and what he has done?

  sorry i'm a newbie here :)

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  Gozz

  I recall one of the first mentions I'd heard of Ray Franz in a Kingdom Hall. There was a WT Study on Apostasy, or some related topic, and this elder made a comment along the line of:

  ".... no one is beyond falling away... in fact, a former member of the Governing Body, one of the annointed, who is also a fleshly brother to another Governing Body member was thorougly deceived and fell away and became an apostate,a nd has since then been writing books against the Society ...".

  Dumb comment; nice comment. He was wrong about the fleshly brother bit, but he apparently did a lot to help a few inquisitive brothers think. A brother asked him the name of the GB member, he mentioned Franz. Searching for "Franz" and other keywords on Alta vista threw up some excerpts from the CoC... I don't think he did it on purpose - he's still a faithful JW; but comments like this are good in jolting inquisitive JWs to life.

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  20

  The Dynamics of online Apostaworld: the History

  by Bas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been really interested in this myself for a while as the online apostacommunity has grown large over the last couple of years.. as most of you probably realize, the internet has been instrumental for apostates to hook up and make a virtual fist at the watchtower, the turbulent history the online apostacommunity might interest you alot.

  it interests me.. as i'm not someone that was here from the beginning, i'd really like to hear the stories of the oldtimers, the first apostates to hook up through the net, the stories from the first boards and sites that were apostate and the evolution of the apostacommunity after that.

  i'm asking people that have been involved since at least 2002 or before to share their stories and views and things that stirred their emotions.

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  Gozz

  Was anyone here ever on www.witnesses.net?

  I've forgotten the name of the owner (Obed?); the site went down sometime in 2000 or so. There was a poster "Friend", whom I perceived as a faithful JW but in strong opposition to the Society's Blood Doctrine; I later heard that "Friend" died, but couldn't confirm that information. I've seen more than a few names here that were on witnesses.net. Because the site was a tad tame, it was a good place for JWs looking for information and discussion, and I know at least two JWs who have been influenced to exit the JW religion based on their interaction there.

  I remember that when witnesses.net went down, and I invited two of the "brothers" over here, the first saw posts that were, er "shocking", and complained about the atmosphere; the posts contained words that were offending to him (Dipshit, or Dipfuck, or sth); the other brother got here, read a few posts and was positively struck by one of the posts. They found both offending and positive posts were by the same poster when they compared notes. This is perhaps one reason to keep things civil when posting.

  Interesting thread.
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  54

  There were some good things about the organisation...

  by Do I Stand Alone? in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read a number of experiences in this discussion forum and quite frankly, i would have to agree that many, if not all, were pretty terrible experiences if not all together traumatic.

  i know that my personal 9-11 tragedy resulted in finding out that the watchtower society was involved with the united nations.

  that pretty much said it all as far as my "career" in the organisation was concerned.

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  Gozz

  I do see some good in the JW religion: for many that need the apron strings, it's a good social network. It is a fact that soem need the form of directiin provided by the JW religion. It is a sad fact. These are the sort of people that benefit the most from the religion: were the JWs not there, they would've gone afyer some form of worship consistent with their needs. It is the same question on emust face when say, discussing with a 68-year old woman whose only social network consists of JWs. Is it fair to attempt to wrench ther from there? It is a legitimate question, and for many of those I know, JW doctrines pose not threat at all to their lives. Many religions (including the severly harmful ones, have this characteristic).

  The JW religion could do it better by removing the control that is destructive of personal relationships, the doctrines that limit personal freedoms, and the repercussions of exiting the religion.

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